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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9037078" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>There are some incredibly degenerate conditions where a natural 20 doesn't hit I believe, but they require the difficulty to be such that any other roll would be a fumble. That's a--pretty extreme outlier, but not impossible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These don't tend to be entirely symmetrical because you rarely have a set of PCs up against a set of opponents that have quite as much a variety of options as they do, and this becomes more and more true as a larger PC group occurs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have to remember that there's only a limited number of modifier types in Pf2e, however; this is very much a thing that was tamped down heavily with 2e. And two of the five are normally already baked into a character (and one of them does not normally occur with opponents). So in practice you're only chasing status and circumstance modifiers. More important is to apply malign conditions to opponents, which often do things that affect ability (one of the two that's baked in) or simply impact other mechanical elements (like the number of actions).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just realized I missed this line. You're fumbling like crazy, but fumbles in to-hit rolls don't really do much unless there's an ability of the opponent to take advantage or some special trait of the weapon (such as with guns) where it applies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9037078, member: 7026617"] There are some incredibly degenerate conditions where a natural 20 doesn't hit I believe, but they require the difficulty to be such that any other roll would be a fumble. That's a--pretty extreme outlier, but not impossible. These don't tend to be entirely symmetrical because you rarely have a set of PCs up against a set of opponents that have quite as much a variety of options as they do, and this becomes more and more true as a larger PC group occurs. You have to remember that there's only a limited number of modifier types in Pf2e, however; this is very much a thing that was tamped down heavily with 2e. And two of the five are normally already baked into a character (and one of them does not normally occur with opponents). So in practice you're only chasing status and circumstance modifiers. More important is to apply malign conditions to opponents, which often do things that affect ability (one of the two that's baked in) or simply impact other mechanical elements (like the number of actions). Just realized I missed this line. You're fumbling like crazy, but fumbles in to-hit rolls don't really do much unless there's an ability of the opponent to take advantage or some special trait of the weapon (such as with guns) where it applies. [/QUOTE]
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