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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9336689" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Well, you would be wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since it was a CR 16 vs a full Level 18 party, yeah. But then I'm just saving my better spells for an actual threat. Also, find it hilarous that you are going to lay draining the allies healing resources on the back-line wizard, and not the fighter charging into melee with the dragon, who is going to be taking in the neighborhood of 15 attacks</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Citation needed. I only found 4 creatures of CR 15 or higher in the Monster Manual with teleport. While the Androsphinx and Solar could teleport with legendaries, the MArilith and Balor could only do it as an action. None of them could bonus action teleport.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Did you note that the burrowing speed does not close the hole behind it? Oh sure, the dragon can play mole man with the party, but between the guy tossing out ranged attacks, or the fighter with a sword, one of them is going to be more effective than the other at actually hitting him. And since the fighter needs to hit him in melee to grapple... isn't he kind of reliant on someone to lock the dragon in place first?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean if he uses his two legendary actions to move, then after the next persons turn he can use them again? No? Oh, so he can't move like that again if someone else is doing something to put him in a dangerous area, limiting his ability to respond to threats by fleeing again?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, dragonfear, I wondered if you would bring up his ability to just no sell someone getting into range to grapple him. </p><p></p><p>And, um, no. His breath weapon is absolutely not the most effective, what are you talking about? Unless the target has no one to make the save and no way to resist lightning damage, which I'll buy the save, but if you know you are facing against a dragon, you prepare for the elemental damage. </p><p></p><p>Oh, wait... the fighter as a baseline can't do that, can they? Not without MAGIC items or MAGIC potions or MAGIC from their allies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I am not banking on all of those things. If I use a measely 2nd level spell slot to make the dragon waste 2 legendary actions solely to move... that's a good trade. </p><p></p><p>If I use a measely 2nd level spell slot, and he doesn't move and he uses his legendary resistance... that's a good trade. </p><p></p><p>And if I'm stupid enough to stand where I can get hit by the lightning breath, and didn't prepare to reduce lightning damage, and I'm the ONLY person who gets hit, allowing my allies to keep using their abilities... not a great trade, but I stood in the open like an idiot, so it must have been part of the plan. </p><p></p><p>IS it the absolule most optimal thing I could have possibly done? No, but then again, I'm not the one who saw me talking about the web spell and was like "AHA! But against an Adult Blue Dragon that spell is worthless!"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I said he was limited to one hand, meaning that he could hold a shield (lower AC) and he couldn't be using a 2-handed weapon (lower damage). Maybe you need to stop responding to every individual sentence I write, so you can actually follow what I am saying. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was never supposed to break the grapple</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, the spell that you insisted I use. Seriously, you set-up these scenarios, then act all smug that the scenario isn't perfectly optimal, while I just try and deal with the scenario you chose to present.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Do you often split the party? Is that why you think that this is a good argument? Because I really struggle with "just because you aren't the person making the checks or taking the actions, doesn't mean you aren't playing the game"... because... yeah, it kind of does mean that. </p><p></p><p>And again, this group is good, I'm having fun, I like and trust them all. But that doesn't make it sting any less when we decide to discuss tactics and the other characters are always the superior choice for any decision.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9336689, member: 6801228"] Well, you would be wrong. Since it was a CR 16 vs a full Level 18 party, yeah. But then I'm just saving my better spells for an actual threat. Also, find it hilarous that you are going to lay draining the allies healing resources on the back-line wizard, and not the fighter charging into melee with the dragon, who is going to be taking in the neighborhood of 15 attacks Citation needed. I only found 4 creatures of CR 15 or higher in the Monster Manual with teleport. While the Androsphinx and Solar could teleport with legendaries, the MArilith and Balor could only do it as an action. None of them could bonus action teleport. Did you note that the burrowing speed does not close the hole behind it? Oh sure, the dragon can play mole man with the party, but between the guy tossing out ranged attacks, or the fighter with a sword, one of them is going to be more effective than the other at actually hitting him. And since the fighter needs to hit him in melee to grapple... isn't he kind of reliant on someone to lock the dragon in place first? You mean if he uses his two legendary actions to move, then after the next persons turn he can use them again? No? Oh, so he can't move like that again if someone else is doing something to put him in a dangerous area, limiting his ability to respond to threats by fleeing again? Yeah, dragonfear, I wondered if you would bring up his ability to just no sell someone getting into range to grapple him. And, um, no. His breath weapon is absolutely not the most effective, what are you talking about? Unless the target has no one to make the save and no way to resist lightning damage, which I'll buy the save, but if you know you are facing against a dragon, you prepare for the elemental damage. Oh, wait... the fighter as a baseline can't do that, can they? Not without MAGIC items or MAGIC potions or MAGIC from their allies. No, I am not banking on all of those things. If I use a measely 2nd level spell slot to make the dragon waste 2 legendary actions solely to move... that's a good trade. If I use a measely 2nd level spell slot, and he doesn't move and he uses his legendary resistance... that's a good trade. And if I'm stupid enough to stand where I can get hit by the lightning breath, and didn't prepare to reduce lightning damage, and I'm the ONLY person who gets hit, allowing my allies to keep using their abilities... not a great trade, but I stood in the open like an idiot, so it must have been part of the plan. IS it the absolule most optimal thing I could have possibly done? No, but then again, I'm not the one who saw me talking about the web spell and was like "AHA! But against an Adult Blue Dragon that spell is worthless!" No. I said he was limited to one hand, meaning that he could hold a shield (lower AC) and he couldn't be using a 2-handed weapon (lower damage). Maybe you need to stop responding to every individual sentence I write, so you can actually follow what I am saying. It was never supposed to break the grapple Yeah, the spell that you insisted I use. Seriously, you set-up these scenarios, then act all smug that the scenario isn't perfectly optimal, while I just try and deal with the scenario you chose to present. Do you often split the party? Is that why you think that this is a good argument? Because I really struggle with "just because you aren't the person making the checks or taking the actions, doesn't mean you aren't playing the game"... because... yeah, it kind of does mean that. And again, this group is good, I'm having fun, I like and trust them all. But that doesn't make it sting any less when we decide to discuss tactics and the other characters are always the superior choice for any decision. [/QUOTE]
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