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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9336616" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Did you need an explanation for why Dire animals exist? What about Ghosts, did you need an explanation for why ghosts exist before you allowed them in your game? Or what about about Rocs, did you need someone to tell you that Rocs are all hit by gamma radiation and that's why they can grow larger than elephants? </p><p></p><p>See, because to me, you are conflating two things as the same thing. You want characters who can do amazing things without magic? I agree, because I like not having to be a spellcaster for every character. For me, magic and spells are the same thing. </p><p></p><p>You want them to be non-supernatural? What are you talking about? My champion fighter could be a tiefling, meaning they are a supernatural character. My Battlemaster can be a magical training robot. My Thief Rogue can literally be a deadman come back to life. These characters ARE supernatural. You mention the new berserker barbarian, I agree, the damage it can do in combat is great. <strong><u>Even better</u></strong> is the Primal Knowledge ability where they can channel the primal power coursing through them to improve their agility and senses. Because it lets all barbarians be more competent at skill checks. It is also, completely supernatural. </p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to tell people what to like or what not to like. I was never going to sit here and say "you can jump 100 feet because your fighter learned the Jump Good spell." but I am going to point out that there is plenty of media where jumping large distances is something that normal, non-magical humans do. You can say it is "superhero territory" and I'll tell you, so is dueling the Lord of Hell on a planetoid flying towards the mouth of a god-eating star monster. Every spellcaster gives reality and physics the middle-finger constantly, by high levels they can start on the process of making their own dimensions (Demiplane used to LITERALLY make another dimension) but we can't have fighters get too much like figures of myth and legend, they need to stay grounded through all 20 levels.... because we just ignore the places where that already isn't true, because the game never explicitly says "you are supernatural" even by level 20.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9336616, member: 6801228"] Did you need an explanation for why Dire animals exist? What about Ghosts, did you need an explanation for why ghosts exist before you allowed them in your game? Or what about about Rocs, did you need someone to tell you that Rocs are all hit by gamma radiation and that's why they can grow larger than elephants? See, because to me, you are conflating two things as the same thing. You want characters who can do amazing things without magic? I agree, because I like not having to be a spellcaster for every character. For me, magic and spells are the same thing. You want them to be non-supernatural? What are you talking about? My champion fighter could be a tiefling, meaning they are a supernatural character. My Battlemaster can be a magical training robot. My Thief Rogue can literally be a deadman come back to life. These characters ARE supernatural. You mention the new berserker barbarian, I agree, the damage it can do in combat is great. [B][U]Even better[/U][/B] is the Primal Knowledge ability where they can channel the primal power coursing through them to improve their agility and senses. Because it lets all barbarians be more competent at skill checks. It is also, completely supernatural. I'm not trying to tell people what to like or what not to like. I was never going to sit here and say "you can jump 100 feet because your fighter learned the Jump Good spell." but I am going to point out that there is plenty of media where jumping large distances is something that normal, non-magical humans do. You can say it is "superhero territory" and I'll tell you, so is dueling the Lord of Hell on a planetoid flying towards the mouth of a god-eating star monster. Every spellcaster gives reality and physics the middle-finger constantly, by high levels they can start on the process of making their own dimensions (Demiplane used to LITERALLY make another dimension) but we can't have fighters get too much like figures of myth and legend, they need to stay grounded through all 20 levels.... because we just ignore the places where that already isn't true, because the game never explicitly says "you are supernatural" even by level 20. [/QUOTE]
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