Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Magical Martial
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9334897" data-attributes="member: 7035894"><p>This is always the crux of your arguments. I can't comment on your games, but I have a LOT of experience with 5e, and I just don't find that martial characters are overshadowed by casters. Especially in combat, which is where much of the conversation has been focused. It is far, far more common for combat to be dominated by martial characters, who between damage dealt and damage taken are much more reliable than casters.</p><p></p><p>Spell casters do have the potential to disrupt the normal sequence of events in combat, and when this happens it is memorable, so I think we tend to overestimate how frequently it happens. But this dependent on a number of factors: skill in game play, having the right spells chosen, and pure luck. In my experience, it is just as likely for casters to have a minimal impact on combat. That is much less often the case with martial classes.</p><p></p><p>As well, martial classes are less resource dependent, so the longer the combat goes, or the more consecutive combats are faced, the more dominant they become.</p><p></p><p>For another thread, I broke down the total damage dealt over all three seasons of Critical Role by that point (it's a handy resource since folks keep every stat imaginable and there are hundreds of games spanning well over a thousand hours of play at this point). The top damage dealers are all martial classes. The only caster who comes close is Caleb, a wizard who specializes in fire magic, and even there, when you break down his damage it is heavily concentrated into a few fights against multiple foes where his AoE spells were at maximum effectiveness.</p><p></p><p>Outside of combat, casters offer great versatility, particularly at higher levels and when the party has time to rest and prepare for a situation. In my experience, this is more where they thrive, but other classes are not being sidelined. In my games, most scouting is still being done by rogues and rangers, for example.</p><p></p><p>I find that your arguments about the dominance of casting classes always feel extremely hyperbolic. There is a great difference between what you describe and what I experience, or see happening in actual play shows, etc.. To the contrary, I find fighters, for example, to be a highly popular class that players very much enjoy specifically because they can be relied on to have an outsized impact on most battles.</p><p></p><p>Edit: also, <em>hold person</em>: highly overrated spell, IMO. <em>Heat metal</em> is a way more effective way to deal with most big, tough humanoids, and <em>Maximillian's Earthen Grasp</em> is way more reliable for dealing with the quick and clever ones, plus can target all kinds of creatures. Or just use <em>web</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Clint_L, post: 9334897, member: 7035894"] This is always the crux of your arguments. I can't comment on your games, but I have a LOT of experience with 5e, and I just don't find that martial characters are overshadowed by casters. Especially in combat, which is where much of the conversation has been focused. It is far, far more common for combat to be dominated by martial characters, who between damage dealt and damage taken are much more reliable than casters. Spell casters do have the potential to disrupt the normal sequence of events in combat, and when this happens it is memorable, so I think we tend to overestimate how frequently it happens. But this dependent on a number of factors: skill in game play, having the right spells chosen, and pure luck. In my experience, it is just as likely for casters to have a minimal impact on combat. That is much less often the case with martial classes. As well, martial classes are less resource dependent, so the longer the combat goes, or the more consecutive combats are faced, the more dominant they become. For another thread, I broke down the total damage dealt over all three seasons of Critical Role by that point (it's a handy resource since folks keep every stat imaginable and there are hundreds of games spanning well over a thousand hours of play at this point). The top damage dealers are all martial classes. The only caster who comes close is Caleb, a wizard who specializes in fire magic, and even there, when you break down his damage it is heavily concentrated into a few fights against multiple foes where his AoE spells were at maximum effectiveness. Outside of combat, casters offer great versatility, particularly at higher levels and when the party has time to rest and prepare for a situation. In my experience, this is more where they thrive, but other classes are not being sidelined. In my games, most scouting is still being done by rogues and rangers, for example. I find that your arguments about the dominance of casting classes always feel extremely hyperbolic. There is a great difference between what you describe and what I experience, or see happening in actual play shows, etc.. To the contrary, I find fighters, for example, to be a highly popular class that players very much enjoy specifically because they can be relied on to have an outsized impact on most battles. Edit: also, [I]hold person[/I]: highly overrated spell, IMO. [I]Heat metal[/I] is a way more effective way to deal with most big, tough humanoids, and [I]Maximillian's Earthen Grasp[/I] is way more reliable for dealing with the quick and clever ones, plus can target all kinds of creatures. Or just use [I]web[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Magical Martial
Top