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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9334872" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Your cantrips do not do poor damage, and you have plenty of slots. Maybe not enough to cover eight combat encounters, but no one else has the health or resources to do that either. Besides, you asked for a 3rd level mage, of course they aren't doing their best yet.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Three or four Goblins? Unless they all shoot the wizard (which, they could theoretically survive) then they are going to drop at least one goblin on their turn. Assuming the rest of the party can manage at least that, the wizard will be fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I never insisted on the 16 constitution. You did. You specifically demanded I have it. And, you are just declaring things with no reason here. Ray of Frost is a good cantrip, decent damage and a utility effect. Every time I use it, I'll be meaningfully contributing. Also, do you think something like Grease is only around for a single turn? That is a concentration spell, and can be effective for multiple turns. </p><p></p><p>Additionally, only decent at the social pillar? Did you even read what I wrote? OR do you only count raw persuasion rolls as social and nothing else, like disguises, reading minds, illusions, misdirection, or any of the other things I built this character to actually do?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, and? I'm identifying a plant while looking through my familiar's eyes. Why would I be using my familiar's scores, I'm the one taking the action. This is like saying that because I hear about the white fang tribe while listening through my familiar, I would need to use their History skill to see if I know anything about them. It is nonsense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From PHB page 182: </p><p><strong><em>Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling </em></strong></p><p><em>Each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot (2 extra feet in difficult terrain) when you're climbing, swimming, or crawling. You ignore this extra cost if you have a climbing speed and use it to climb, or a swimming speed and use it to swim. <strong><u>At the DM's option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check</u></strong>. Similarly, gaining any distance in rough water might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check.</em></p><p></p><p>Note how your entry says that they cover <strong>DIFFICULT </strong>situations that you encounter <strong>WHILE </strong>climbing. That is because climbing itself does not take a roll. Never has. People just keep using the wrong rules from an older edition. </p><p></p><p>So yeah, my 8 strength wizard can climb a tree or a rocky cliff just fine. Might struggle with climbing up a waterfall or a smooth wall though. Which can be handled with pitons and rope.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No they don't, unless I am somehow soloing the encounter with no allies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What? </p><p></p><p>Here are the stats I gave: </p><p><em>16 Str --> +3</em></p><p><em>10 Con --> +0</em></p><p><em>13 Charisma --> +1</em></p><p><em>16 Wisdom --> +3</em></p><p><em>12 Dex --> +1</em></p><p><em>8 INT --> -1</em></p><p></p><p>Here is what you are suggesting I change it to: </p><p><em>16 Str --> +3</em></p><p><em>10 Con --> +0</em></p><p><em>12 Charisma --> +1</em></p><p><em>16 Wisdom --> +3</em></p><p><em>13 Dex --> +1</em></p><p><em>8 INT --> -1</em></p><p></p><p>Which is no change or</p><p></p><p><em>16 Str --> +3</em></p><p><em>10 Con --> +0</em></p><p><em>13 Charisma --> +1</em></p><p><em>16 Wisdom --> +3</em></p><p><em>8 Dex --> -1</em></p><p><em>12 INT --> +1</em></p><p></p><p>Which is increasing INTELLIGENCE which you didn't even mention</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Do you... do you not know how maneuvers work? IF you are doing this per the fighting style, you get 1 die. 1 > 8, no matter how you cut that. </p><p></p><p>So, to have "more manuevers" you need to be battlemaster. But lo, I never picked a subclass for the wizard. So are we changing this so that you get to be a battlemaster who just happens to perfectly always use their dice ideally, while I'm a subclassless wizard? </p><p></p><p></p><p>And as for contributing in every round of combat... that encounter with the goblins in the forest, do you know who has been the least effective every time I've run that? Melee combatants. Because the goblins are hidden in the underbrush, at a distance, so the melee characters have to run in, deal with difficult terrain, and the goblins generally just keep kiting and shooting them then hiding. So, how effective is your fighter in any round of combat they can't reach a target? Are they always going to reach their target 100% of rounds of combat? Not in my experience. </p><p></p><p>And I love how you just go "sure" to a character who needs six skills, when their background and class will combine to give them 4. And will also need to break the rules for character creation to have unusually high stats. And you still need to assume Battlemaster, and not any other type of fighter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9334872, member: 6801228"] Your cantrips do not do poor damage, and you have plenty of slots. Maybe not enough to cover eight combat encounters, but no one else has the health or resources to do that either. Besides, you asked for a 3rd level mage, of course they aren't doing their best yet. Three or four Goblins? Unless they all shoot the wizard (which, they could theoretically survive) then they are going to drop at least one goblin on their turn. Assuming the rest of the party can manage at least that, the wizard will be fine. I never insisted on the 16 constitution. You did. You specifically demanded I have it. And, you are just declaring things with no reason here. Ray of Frost is a good cantrip, decent damage and a utility effect. Every time I use it, I'll be meaningfully contributing. Also, do you think something like Grease is only around for a single turn? That is a concentration spell, and can be effective for multiple turns. Additionally, only decent at the social pillar? Did you even read what I wrote? OR do you only count raw persuasion rolls as social and nothing else, like disguises, reading minds, illusions, misdirection, or any of the other things I built this character to actually do? Yeah, and? I'm identifying a plant while looking through my familiar's eyes. Why would I be using my familiar's scores, I'm the one taking the action. This is like saying that because I hear about the white fang tribe while listening through my familiar, I would need to use their History skill to see if I know anything about them. It is nonsense. From PHB page 182: [B][I]Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling [/I][/B] [I]Each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot (2 extra feet in difficult terrain) when you're climbing, swimming, or crawling. You ignore this extra cost if you have a climbing speed and use it to climb, or a swimming speed and use it to swim. [B][U]At the DM's option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check[/U][/B]. Similarly, gaining any distance in rough water might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check.[/I] Note how your entry says that they cover [B]DIFFICULT [/B]situations that you encounter [B]WHILE [/B]climbing. That is because climbing itself does not take a roll. Never has. People just keep using the wrong rules from an older edition. So yeah, my 8 strength wizard can climb a tree or a rocky cliff just fine. Might struggle with climbing up a waterfall or a smooth wall though. Which can be handled with pitons and rope. [I][/I] No they don't, unless I am somehow soloing the encounter with no allies. What? Here are the stats I gave: [I]16 Str --> +3 10 Con --> +0 13 Charisma --> +1 16 Wisdom --> +3 12 Dex --> +1 8 INT --> -1[/I] Here is what you are suggesting I change it to: [I]16 Str --> +3 10 Con --> +0 12 Charisma --> +1 16 Wisdom --> +3 13 Dex --> +1 8 INT --> -1[/I] Which is no change or [I]16 Str --> +3 10 Con --> +0 13 Charisma --> +1 16 Wisdom --> +3 8 Dex --> -1 12 INT --> +1[/I] Which is increasing INTELLIGENCE which you didn't even mention Do you... do you not know how maneuvers work? IF you are doing this per the fighting style, you get 1 die. 1 > 8, no matter how you cut that. So, to have "more manuevers" you need to be battlemaster. But lo, I never picked a subclass for the wizard. So are we changing this so that you get to be a battlemaster who just happens to perfectly always use their dice ideally, while I'm a subclassless wizard? And as for contributing in every round of combat... that encounter with the goblins in the forest, do you know who has been the least effective every time I've run that? Melee combatants. Because the goblins are hidden in the underbrush, at a distance, so the melee characters have to run in, deal with difficult terrain, and the goblins generally just keep kiting and shooting them then hiding. So, how effective is your fighter in any round of combat they can't reach a target? Are they always going to reach their target 100% of rounds of combat? Not in my experience. And I love how you just go "sure" to a character who needs six skills, when their background and class will combine to give them 4. And will also need to break the rules for character creation to have unusually high stats. And you still need to assume Battlemaster, and not any other type of fighter. [/QUOTE]
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