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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9334848" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>I am not casting shade on anyone. I am pointing out that players purposely build these classes to be good at combat and that is why those characters are only good at combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know they will because I play a lot of games at high level.</p><p>Pick any 10 in order and you will find the same.</p><p></p><p>At high level most monsters that matter will have resistances, immunities and legendary resistance.</p><p></p><p>Descent into Avernus, at level 3 MOST enemies you are facing have magic resistance. That is at level 3.</p><p></p><p>Let's look at another published adventure, Dungeon of the mad mage:</p><p></p><p>Level 15:</p><p>Enemies with significant condition immunities, Legendary Resistance or Magic Resistance: Ghost, Death Tyrant, Living Unseen Servant, Adult White Dragon, Stone Golem, Vampire, Nycaloth</p><p>Enemies without those things: Lava Children Skeletons, Drow, Mephits, Mage (and the Mage that is has counterspell)</p><p></p><p>Level 16:</p><p>Enemies With: Crystal Golems, Adult Red Dragon, Mind Flayers</p><p>Enemies without: various Githyanki, Young Red Dragons</p><p></p><p>Level 17:</p><p>Enemies with: Neothilid, Mind Flayers, Scaladar</p><p>Enemies without: Githyanki, Orogs, Troglodyte, Vetran, Dueregar, Grimlocks</p><p></p><p>Level 18:</p><p>Enemies with: Bronze Shadow Dragon, Death Knight, Vampires, Shadow Assasins</p><p>Enemies without: Vampire Spawn, Swarm of Rats, cloaker</p><p></p><p>Of note, there are things that don't have these, but you should roll over most of those creatures at this level and you are not using your powerful spells for them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are not immune to restrained and you fail the save. Web is a good spell, I am not saying it isn't. But it is situational at high level being restrained is not nearly as bad for an enemy as it is at low level.</p><p></p><p>A high level Rune Knight with athletics proficiency can fairly reliably put a huge Dragon prone and grappled in a single turn. As far as conditions, this is generally better than being restrained in a web, the Dragon can't use Legendaries to stop it because it is a contest and the Dragon needs to make a strength check which he will likely fail to try and get out of it. It also takes effect immediately instead of waiting until the Dragon's turn and the RK can move the Dragon wherever he wants and he does not need to retain concentration.</p><p></p><p>To compare these:</p><p></p><p>Against Web an Adult Blue Dragon has a 40% chance to fail a DC18 Dex save and a 50% chance to make the DC 18 Strength Check if he fails and that is if he chooses not to use a legendary.</p><p></p><p>Against a RK trying to grapple and prone, the same Dragon has over a 90% chance of failing at least 2 of 3 strength contests against a +10 with advantage. Once he is grappled and proned the chance he can break free with an action is less than 20%. He can't use a Legendary against this either. To add incult to injury over half the time the Fighter will do it in 2 of his 3 attacks and be able to pound him with advantage using his 3rd attack.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am never a footnote, but niether do I get jealous and upset because someone else has a stronger character. You be You, let me be me.</p><p></p><p>I can play any class RAW to 20th level and be effective, why should I worry about if another character at the table is better than me?</p><p></p><p>I mean it is a team game anyway, having someone else who is more powerful makes the entire party more powerful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We did have a Paladin and he was planning to be the face. But I boosted Charisma on my fighter, while he boosted strength first and then Constitution with his Paladin.</p><p></p><p>I was a better face than him because of choices I made in my build. I don't think I stole his role, his chassis is actually more suited to that, he just did not choose to invest as much as I did.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on what you mean by caster.</p><p></p><p>I have not seen full casters take over in 10 years of playing 5E and I see as many non-full casters now as I did in the beginning even though the gap at most levels has widened</p><p></p><p>If by "caster" you are including the Monk, Rogue or Fighter that gets a spell through a race option, then sure casters have taken over the game, but I don't see a problem with that as lots of people are still playing those non-caster classes.</p><p></p><p>Also you seem to be ignoring that this is very specific to level and class. Wizards are overall the strongest characters in the game, but they are not the strongest at every level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is just petty. It is pouting. It is like playing a game of basketball with your friends and being angry that your teamate can dunk and you can't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A Fey Wanderer can bury a Paladin, Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer. They get spells, including Charm Person and have Beguiling Twist on top of that.</p><p></p><p>Fey Wanderer is really the only Ranger I play anymore.</p><p></p><p>I am rarely attacking at high level with a Fey Wanderer. Extra attack with Favored Foe and Dreadful Strikes is a nice fallback option, and I also usually have Shillaleagh and Magic Stone through a fighting style to use Wisdom, although the bonus action tax can be difficult to manage. In truth though I am using spells (or magic items) most of the time in meaningful combats when it matters. In really tough combats I am spamming Concentration-Free Summon Fey and then twisting their charms when someone saves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why when feats are available?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9334848, member: 7030563"] I am not casting shade on anyone. I am pointing out that players purposely build these classes to be good at combat and that is why those characters are only good at combat. I know they will because I play a lot of games at high level. Pick any 10 in order and you will find the same. At high level most monsters that matter will have resistances, immunities and legendary resistance. Descent into Avernus, at level 3 MOST enemies you are facing have magic resistance. That is at level 3. Let's look at another published adventure, Dungeon of the mad mage: Level 15: Enemies with significant condition immunities, Legendary Resistance or Magic Resistance: Ghost, Death Tyrant, Living Unseen Servant, Adult White Dragon, Stone Golem, Vampire, Nycaloth Enemies without those things: Lava Children Skeletons, Drow, Mephits, Mage (and the Mage that is has counterspell) Level 16: Enemies With: Crystal Golems, Adult Red Dragon, Mind Flayers Enemies without: various Githyanki, Young Red Dragons Level 17: Enemies with: Neothilid, Mind Flayers, Scaladar Enemies without: Githyanki, Orogs, Troglodyte, Vetran, Dueregar, Grimlocks Level 18: Enemies with: Bronze Shadow Dragon, Death Knight, Vampires, Shadow Assasins Enemies without: Vampire Spawn, Swarm of Rats, cloaker Of note, there are things that don't have these, but you should roll over most of those creatures at this level and you are not using your powerful spells for them. If you are not immune to restrained and you fail the save. Web is a good spell, I am not saying it isn't. But it is situational at high level being restrained is not nearly as bad for an enemy as it is at low level. A high level Rune Knight with athletics proficiency can fairly reliably put a huge Dragon prone and grappled in a single turn. As far as conditions, this is generally better than being restrained in a web, the Dragon can't use Legendaries to stop it because it is a contest and the Dragon needs to make a strength check which he will likely fail to try and get out of it. It also takes effect immediately instead of waiting until the Dragon's turn and the RK can move the Dragon wherever he wants and he does not need to retain concentration. To compare these: Against Web an Adult Blue Dragon has a 40% chance to fail a DC18 Dex save and a 50% chance to make the DC 18 Strength Check if he fails and that is if he chooses not to use a legendary. Against a RK trying to grapple and prone, the same Dragon has over a 90% chance of failing at least 2 of 3 strength contests against a +10 with advantage. Once he is grappled and proned the chance he can break free with an action is less than 20%. He can't use a Legendary against this either. To add incult to injury over half the time the Fighter will do it in 2 of his 3 attacks and be able to pound him with advantage using his 3rd attack. I am never a footnote, but niether do I get jealous and upset because someone else has a stronger character. You be You, let me be me. I can play any class RAW to 20th level and be effective, why should I worry about if another character at the table is better than me? I mean it is a team game anyway, having someone else who is more powerful makes the entire party more powerful. We did have a Paladin and he was planning to be the face. But I boosted Charisma on my fighter, while he boosted strength first and then Constitution with his Paladin. I was a better face than him because of choices I made in my build. I don't think I stole his role, his chassis is actually more suited to that, he just did not choose to invest as much as I did. It depends on what you mean by caster. I have not seen full casters take over in 10 years of playing 5E and I see as many non-full casters now as I did in the beginning even though the gap at most levels has widened If by "caster" you are including the Monk, Rogue or Fighter that gets a spell through a race option, then sure casters have taken over the game, but I don't see a problem with that as lots of people are still playing those non-caster classes. Also you seem to be ignoring that this is very specific to level and class. Wizards are overall the strongest characters in the game, but they are not the strongest at every level. I think this is just petty. It is pouting. It is like playing a game of basketball with your friends and being angry that your teamate can dunk and you can't. A Fey Wanderer can bury a Paladin, Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer. They get spells, including Charm Person and have Beguiling Twist on top of that. Fey Wanderer is really the only Ranger I play anymore. I am rarely attacking at high level with a Fey Wanderer. Extra attack with Favored Foe and Dreadful Strikes is a nice fallback option, and I also usually have Shillaleagh and Magic Stone through a fighting style to use Wisdom, although the bonus action tax can be difficult to manage. In truth though I am using spells (or magic items) most of the time in meaningful combats when it matters. In really tough combats I am spamming Concentration-Free Summon Fey and then twisting their charms when someone saves. Why when feats are available? [/QUOTE]
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