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<blockquote data-quote="Staffan" data-source="post: 8688761" data-attributes="member: 907"><p>They're not, though. They are used as an example of "Priests of specific mythoi" (at least I think that's the term they use – definitely something close to it). The term "specialty priest" was, I think, only used in Forgotten Realms material, starting with Forgotten Realms Adventures.</p><p></p><p>I think there was some internal disconnect within TSR on the issue. The sense I got from the PHB was that the designers expected DMs to build priesthoods of individual deities, and mainly included the cleric as a placeholder and because of backward compatibility. The Forgotten Realms situation, with both clerics and specialty priests of the same deities was not what Zeb Cook had expected.</p><p></p><p>The situation also developed over the course of the edition, with Faiths & Avatars being a gigantic power-up compared to previous versions. As an example, here are the stats for Morninglords (specialty priests of Lathander) from first Forgotten Realms Adventures, and then Faiths & Avatars.</p><p></p><p>Requirements (both): Wis 14, Cha 12</p><p>Weapons (both): Bludgeoning only</p><p>Armor (both): Up to plate mail + shield</p><p>Major spheres (FRA): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Plant, Sun, Weather</p><p>Major spheres (F&A): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic (restorative forms only of reversible spells), Plant, Thought, Sun, Wards, Weather</p><p>Minor spheres (FRA): Combat, Divination, Guardian</p><p>Minor spheres (F&A): Combat, Divination, Guardian, Time</p><p>Bonus proficiencies (F&A only): Two of appraising, artistic ability, carpentry, cooking, juggling, leatherworking, musical instrument, and pottery.</p><p>Granted Powers (FRA):</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Turn undead as four levels higher if the undead are vulnerable to sunlight.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 3: <em>faerie fire</em> 1/day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2 to proficiencies in appraising, artistic ability, juggling, musical instrument, or pottery.</li> </ul><p>Granted Powers (F&A): As above plus:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Light</em> 3/day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 5: <em>sunrise</em> 1/day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 7: <em>boon of Lathander</em> 1/day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 9: <em>false dawn</em> 1/day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Expanded list of proficiencies with +2 (same as bonus proficiencies).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+10% to the Resurrection Survival chance of anyone they <em>raise</em> or <em>resurrect</em>, not to exceed 99%.</li> </ul><p>As a comparison, a priest of a Dawn deity using the guidelines from the Complete Priest's Handbook would have:</p><p>Weapons: Bows only.</p><p>Armor: None.</p><p>Special: Use d6 instead of d8 as hit die.</p><p>Major: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental (air/fire/heat only), Healing, Summoning, Sun.</p><p>Minor: Animal, Creation, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Weather.</p><p>Granted Powers:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Charm/Fascination: As <em>suggestion</em> 3/day, can affect 2x level in HD, can't be used in combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Immunity to level drain</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Turn undead.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 10: <em>chariot of Sustarre</em> 1/day</li> </ul><p>The differences are rather stark. I have a memory of once trying to use the rules in Spells & Magic to see how balanced (or not) the priesthoods in both Complete Priest's and F&A were. I don't recall the exact rules, but Spells & Magic had a point-based system to design your own priest class, with both the cleric, the druid, and the new priesthoods in that book clocking in at... I want to say 120 points. Checking the ones in the Complete Priest's Handbook, I got point totals of about 80. Faiths & Avatars? 200+. Now, some of that was because the system greatly overvalued granted powers that let you cast spells, but still.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Staffan, post: 8688761, member: 907"] They're not, though. They are used as an example of "Priests of specific mythoi" (at least I think that's the term they use – definitely something close to it). The term "specialty priest" was, I think, only used in Forgotten Realms material, starting with Forgotten Realms Adventures. I think there was some internal disconnect within TSR on the issue. The sense I got from the PHB was that the designers expected DMs to build priesthoods of individual deities, and mainly included the cleric as a placeholder and because of backward compatibility. The Forgotten Realms situation, with both clerics and specialty priests of the same deities was not what Zeb Cook had expected. The situation also developed over the course of the edition, with Faiths & Avatars being a gigantic power-up compared to previous versions. As an example, here are the stats for Morninglords (specialty priests of Lathander) from first Forgotten Realms Adventures, and then Faiths & Avatars. Requirements (both): Wis 14, Cha 12 Weapons (both): Bludgeoning only Armor (both): Up to plate mail + shield Major spheres (FRA): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Plant, Sun, Weather Major spheres (F&A): All, Astral, Charm, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic (restorative forms only of reversible spells), Plant, Thought, Sun, Wards, Weather Minor spheres (FRA): Combat, Divination, Guardian Minor spheres (F&A): Combat, Divination, Guardian, Time Bonus proficiencies (F&A only): Two of appraising, artistic ability, carpentry, cooking, juggling, leatherworking, musical instrument, and pottery. Granted Powers (FRA): [LIST] [*]Turn undead as four levels higher if the undead are vulnerable to sunlight. [*]Level 3: [I]faerie fire[/I] 1/day. [*]+2 to proficiencies in appraising, artistic ability, juggling, musical instrument, or pottery. [/LIST] Granted Powers (F&A): As above plus: [LIST] [*][I]Light[/I] 3/day. [*]Level 5: [I]sunrise[/I] 1/day. [*]Level 7: [I]boon of Lathander[/I] 1/day. [*]Level 9: [I]false dawn[/I] 1/day. [*]Expanded list of proficiencies with +2 (same as bonus proficiencies). [*]+10% to the Resurrection Survival chance of anyone they [I]raise[/I] or [I]resurrect[/I], not to exceed 99%. [/LIST] As a comparison, a priest of a Dawn deity using the guidelines from the Complete Priest's Handbook would have: Weapons: Bows only. Armor: None. Special: Use d6 instead of d8 as hit die. Major: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental (air/fire/heat only), Healing, Summoning, Sun. Minor: Animal, Creation, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Weather. Granted Powers: [LIST] [*]Charm/Fascination: As [I]suggestion[/I] 3/day, can affect 2x level in HD, can't be used in combat. [*]Immunity to level drain [*]Turn undead. [*]Level 10: [I]chariot of Sustarre[/I] 1/day [/LIST] The differences are rather stark. I have a memory of once trying to use the rules in Spells & Magic to see how balanced (or not) the priesthoods in both Complete Priest's and F&A were. I don't recall the exact rules, but Spells & Magic had a point-based system to design your own priest class, with both the cleric, the druid, and the new priesthoods in that book clocking in at... I want to say 120 points. Checking the ones in the Complete Priest's Handbook, I got point totals of about 80. Faiths & Avatars? 200+. Now, some of that was because the system greatly overvalued granted powers that let you cast spells, but still. [/QUOTE]
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