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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8433923" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>No, of course it doesn't. I often enjoy myself even when playing games where I lose clearly. Chess can be a good example -- if I'm beaten by a clever and good play, I find that rather enjoyable. It's when I lose through my own blunders that I'm less happy.</p><p></p><p>And that's why I find the objective of "have fun" to not be useful at all when discussing RPGs -- it's trivially obvious and not a specific feature of RPGs. "We all win if we have fun" is true of any game. It's not something unique or even uniquely suited to RPGs. I more care about what goals are put in play and how those resolve. Having fun is a baseline for me for any game -- and an explicit reason why I hate Fluxx, because it is not fun for me at all.</p><p></p><p>It's quite possible to have a game that interests the hell out of you (general), and where the goals/win conditions are very much things you want to engage, but that the actual play of the game includes things that are unfun for you. At which point, the win conditions of the game don't really matter because the floor function of "games should be fun" is not met. "Play to have fun" always seems like a minimum requirement to me, not an end goal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8433923, member: 16814"] No, of course it doesn't. I often enjoy myself even when playing games where I lose clearly. Chess can be a good example -- if I'm beaten by a clever and good play, I find that rather enjoyable. It's when I lose through my own blunders that I'm less happy. And that's why I find the objective of "have fun" to not be useful at all when discussing RPGs -- it's trivially obvious and not a specific feature of RPGs. "We all win if we have fun" is true of any game. It's not something unique or even uniquely suited to RPGs. I more care about what goals are put in play and how those resolve. Having fun is a baseline for me for any game -- and an explicit reason why I hate Fluxx, because it is not fun for me at all. It's quite possible to have a game that interests the hell out of you (general), and where the goals/win conditions are very much things you want to engage, but that the actual play of the game includes things that are unfun for you. At which point, the win conditions of the game don't really matter because the floor function of "games should be fun" is not met. "Play to have fun" always seems like a minimum requirement to me, not an end goal. [/QUOTE]
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