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Minions with Damage Thresholds?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9202294" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I've been experimenting with ways to introduce "minions" in 5e, in the sense of monsters who I don't have to track hit points for - allowing me to use lots of them without too much mental overhead.</p><p></p><p>One of my stumbling block was the "feel" of the mechanics – how do I present a 1 hp monster so that it "feels" believable with all the other sources of damage and hit points in the game? I tried a couple things that worked okay if you kind of didn't look too hard, but I could see why they sometimes turned players off to the idea. Recently I've been experimenting with borrowing from the object Damage Threshold rules - an idea presented in the DMG (and seemingly abandoned) where, for example, a sailing ship might have Damage Threshold 15 and any damage source that would deal <15 damage has no effect on the ship.</p><p></p><p>Using a similar foundation, I tried to make it feel unique to the creature (e.g. slippery firenewt minions lose damage threshold when exposed to cold damage or when unable to move, while the slayer with its Acrobatic Foe can survive a fall of up to 19 damage...possibly a 40-or-50-foot fall).</p><p></p><p>I would love to get your feedback on how these rules sit for you in terms of "feel" and implementation? Do you foresee unintended problems arising at the table when trying these minion rules?</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I discuss design goals / issues I'm trying to address a few posts later here: <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-3#post-9204138" target="_blank">https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-3#post-9204138</a></p><p></p><p>________________________________________________________</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)"><span style="font-size: 18px">Firenewt Minion</span></span></strong></p><p>EDIT: 2nd draft here: <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-4#post-9204351" target="_blank">https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-4#post-9204351</a></p><p><em>Medium humanoid (firenewt), neutral evil</em></p><p><strong>Armor Class </strong>13 (shield)</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Hit Points </span></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">1 (see Slippery Foe)</span></p><p><strong>Speed </strong>30 ft.</p><p></p><p><strong>STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA</strong></p><p><strong> </strong>10 (+0) 13 (+1) 12 (+1) 7 (-2) 11 (+0) 8 (-3)</p><p></p><p><strong>Damage Immunities </strong>fire</p><p><strong>Senses </strong>passive Perception 10</p><p><strong>Languages </strong>Draconic, Ignan</p><p><strong>Challenge </strong>1/4 (50 XP) <strong>Proficiency Bonus </strong>+2</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Amphibious. </em></strong>The firenewt can breathe air and water.</p><p></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Slippery Foe. </span></em></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">The firenewt takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 10 damage, unless it is cold damage. While the firenewt is unable to move, it loses this trait.</span></p><p></p><p><strong>ACTIONS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><em>Fiery Scimitar. </em></strong><em>Melee Weapon Attack: </em>+3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit: </em>4 (1d6+1) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) fire damage.</p><p>________________________________________________________</p><p>________________________________________________________</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)"><span style="font-size: 18px">Imperishable Mamluk Minion</span></span></strong></p><p><em>Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral or lawful evil</em></p><p><strong>Armor Class </strong>17 (lamellar armor, shield)</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Hit Points </span></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">1 (see Implaccable Foe)</span></p><p><strong>Speed </strong>30 ft.</p><p></p><p><strong>STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA</strong></p><p><strong> </strong>16 (+3) 12 (+1) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 12 (+1) 10 (+0)</p><p></p><p><strong>Skills </strong>Perception +3, Survival +3</p><p><strong>Damage Resistance </strong>fire</p><p><strong>Senses </strong>passive Perception 13</p><p><strong>Languages </strong>Common, Ignan</p><p><strong>Challenge </strong>1 (200 XP) <strong>Proficiency Bonus </strong>+2</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Solidarity.</em></strong> The mamluk has advantage on saving throws if at least one ally is within 5 feet of the mamluk and the ally isn’t incapacitated.</p><p></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Implaccable Foe. </span></em></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">So long as the mamluk is within 5 feet of an ally, it takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 10 damage.</span></p><p></p><p><strong>ACTIONS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><em>Pike. </em></strong><em>Melee Weapon Attack: </em>+5 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. <em>Hit: </em>8 (1d10+3) piercing damage.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Longsword. </em></strong><em>Melee Weapon Attack: </em>+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit: </em>7 (1d8+3) slashing damage.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Shortbow. </em></strong><em>Ranged Weapon Attack: </em>+3 to hit, range 80/320 ft., one target. <em>Hit: </em>4 (1d6+1) piercing damage.</p><p>________________________________________________________</p><p>________________________________________________________</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Flamedeath Slayer Minion</span></span></strong></p><p><em>Medium humanoid (human), lawful evil or lawful neutral</em></p><p><strong>Armor Class </strong>13</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Hit Points </span></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">1 (see Acrobatic Foe)</span></p><p><strong>Speed </strong>30 ft.</p><p></p><p><strong>STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA</strong></p><p><strong> </strong>10 (+0) 16 (+3) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 14 (+2) 10 (+0)</p><p></p><p><strong>Skills </strong>Acrobatics +5, Perception +4, Stealth +7</p><p><strong>Damage Resistances </strong>fire</p><p><strong>Senses </strong>passive Perception 14</p><p><strong>Languages </strong>Common, Ignan (Primordial), Thieves’ Cant</p><p><strong>Challenge </strong>3 (700 XP) <strong>Proficiency Bonus </strong>+2</p><p></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">Acrobatic Foe. </span></em></strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">The slayer takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 20 damage, unless the attack has advantage. While the slayer is unable to take reactions, it loses this trait.</span></p><p></p><p><strong><em>Assassinate. </em></strong>The slayer has advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken its turn in combat yet. Also, any hit it scores against a surprised creature is a critical hit.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Oil of Liquid Stars. </em></strong>A creature struck by this oil ignites in flames, suffering 7 (2d6) fire damage at the end of each of its turns until the flames are extinguished as an action by it or another creature. The oil burns for one minute.</p><p> When applied to a weapon instead, the oil deals an additional 3 (1d6) fire damage when the weapon hits.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Sneak Attack (1/turn). </em></strong>The slayer deals an extra 14 (4d6) damage when it hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of the slayer that isn't incapacitated and the slayer doesn't have disadvantage on the attack roll.</p><p></p><p><strong>ACTIONS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><em>Scimitar. </em></strong><em>Melee Weapon Attack: </em>+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit: </em>6 (1d6+3) piercing damage.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Bomb (3 bombs). </em></strong>The slayer throws a bomb up to 60 ft. All creatures within 5 feet of that point suffer 10 (3d6) fire damage and are lit on fire as per Oil of Liquid Stars. A successful DC 12 Dexterity saving throw reduces this damage by half, and avoids being lit on fire.</p><p></p><p><strong>BONUS ACTIONS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><em>Cunning Action. </em></strong>As a bonus action, the slayer can Dash, Disengage, Hide, or apply poison or oil to a weapon.</p><p>________________________________________________________</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 9202294, member: 20323"] I've been experimenting with ways to introduce "minions" in 5e, in the sense of monsters who I don't have to track hit points for - allowing me to use lots of them without too much mental overhead. One of my stumbling block was the "feel" of the mechanics – how do I present a 1 hp monster so that it "feels" believable with all the other sources of damage and hit points in the game? I tried a couple things that worked okay if you kind of didn't look too hard, but I could see why they sometimes turned players off to the idea. Recently I've been experimenting with borrowing from the object Damage Threshold rules - an idea presented in the DMG (and seemingly abandoned) where, for example, a sailing ship might have Damage Threshold 15 and any damage source that would deal <15 damage has no effect on the ship. Using a similar foundation, I tried to make it feel unique to the creature (e.g. slippery firenewt minions lose damage threshold when exposed to cold damage or when unable to move, while the slayer with its Acrobatic Foe can survive a fall of up to 19 damage...possibly a 40-or-50-foot fall). I would love to get your feedback on how these rules sit for you in terms of "feel" and implementation? Do you foresee unintended problems arising at the table when trying these minion rules? EDIT: I discuss design goals / issues I'm trying to address a few posts later here: [URL]https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-3#post-9204138[/URL] ________________________________________________________ [B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)][SIZE=5]Firenewt Minion[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] EDIT: 2nd draft here: [URL]https://www.enworld.org/threads/minions-with-damage-thresholds.701247/page-4#post-9204351[/URL] [I]Medium humanoid (firenewt), neutral evil[/I] [B]Armor Class [/B]13 (shield) [B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Hit Points [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]1 (see Slippery Foe)[/COLOR] [B]Speed [/B]30 ft. [B]STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA [/B]10 (+0) 13 (+1) 12 (+1) 7 (-2) 11 (+0) 8 (-3) [B]Damage Immunities [/B]fire [B]Senses [/B]passive Perception 10 [B]Languages [/B]Draconic, Ignan [B]Challenge [/B]1/4 (50 XP) [B]Proficiency Bonus [/B]+2 [B][I]Amphibious. [/I][/B]The firenewt can breathe air and water. [B][I][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Slippery Foe. [/COLOR][/I][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]The firenewt takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 10 damage, unless it is cold damage. While the firenewt is unable to move, it loses this trait.[/COLOR] [B]ACTIONS [I]Fiery Scimitar. [/I][/B][I]Melee Weapon Attack: [/I]+3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit: [/I]4 (1d6+1) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) fire damage. ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ [B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)][SIZE=5]Imperishable Mamluk Minion[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] [I]Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral or lawful evil[/I] [B]Armor Class [/B]17 (lamellar armor, shield) [B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Hit Points [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]1 (see Implaccable Foe)[/COLOR] [B]Speed [/B]30 ft. [B]STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA [/B]16 (+3) 12 (+1) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 12 (+1) 10 (+0) [B]Skills [/B]Perception +3, Survival +3 [B]Damage Resistance [/B]fire [B]Senses [/B]passive Perception 13 [B]Languages [/B]Common, Ignan [B]Challenge [/B]1 (200 XP) [B]Proficiency Bonus [/B]+2 [B][I]Solidarity.[/I][/B] The mamluk has advantage on saving throws if at least one ally is within 5 feet of the mamluk and the ally isn’t incapacitated. [B][I][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Implaccable Foe. [/COLOR][/I][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]So long as the mamluk is within 5 feet of an ally, it takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 10 damage.[/COLOR] [B]ACTIONS [I]Pike. [/I][/B][I]Melee Weapon Attack: [/I]+5 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. [I]Hit: [/I]8 (1d10+3) piercing damage. [B][I]Longsword. [/I][/B][I]Melee Weapon Attack: [/I]+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit: [/I]7 (1d8+3) slashing damage. [B][I]Shortbow. [/I][/B][I]Ranged Weapon Attack: [/I]+3 to hit, range 80/320 ft., one target. [I]Hit: [/I]4 (1d6+1) piercing damage. ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ [B][SIZE=5][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Flamedeath Slayer Minion[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [I]Medium humanoid (human), lawful evil or lawful neutral[/I] [B]Armor Class [/B]13 [B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Hit Points [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]1 (see Acrobatic Foe)[/COLOR] [B]Speed [/B]30 ft. [B]STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA [/B]10 (+0) 16 (+3) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) [B]Skills [/B]Acrobatics +5, Perception +4, Stealth +7 [B]Damage Resistances [/B]fire [B]Senses [/B]passive Perception 14 [B]Languages [/B]Common, Ignan (Primordial), Thieves’ Cant [B]Challenge [/B]3 (700 XP) [B]Proficiency Bonus [/B]+2 [B][I][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]Acrobatic Foe. [/COLOR][/I][/B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]The slayer takes no damage from an attack, spell, or effect that deals less than 20 damage, unless the attack has advantage. While the slayer is unable to take reactions, it loses this trait.[/COLOR] [B][I]Assassinate. [/I][/B]The slayer has advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken its turn in combat yet. Also, any hit it scores against a surprised creature is a critical hit. [B][I]Oil of Liquid Stars. [/I][/B]A creature struck by this oil ignites in flames, suffering 7 (2d6) fire damage at the end of each of its turns until the flames are extinguished as an action by it or another creature. The oil burns for one minute. When applied to a weapon instead, the oil deals an additional 3 (1d6) fire damage when the weapon hits. [B][I]Sneak Attack (1/turn). [/I][/B]The slayer deals an extra 14 (4d6) damage when it hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of the slayer that isn't incapacitated and the slayer doesn't have disadvantage on the attack roll. [B]ACTIONS [I]Scimitar. [/I][/B][I]Melee Weapon Attack: [/I]+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit: [/I]6 (1d6+3) piercing damage. [B][I]Bomb (3 bombs). [/I][/B]The slayer throws a bomb up to 60 ft. All creatures within 5 feet of that point suffer 10 (3d6) fire damage and are lit on fire as per Oil of Liquid Stars. A successful DC 12 Dexterity saving throw reduces this damage by half, and avoids being lit on fire. [B]BONUS ACTIONS [I]Cunning Action. [/I][/B]As a bonus action, the slayer can Dash, Disengage, Hide, or apply poison or oil to a weapon. ________________________________________________________ [/QUOTE]
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