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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #5: Inspiration & Destiny
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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8119076" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p>Some of the things you wrote made me feel like you were. This may have just been poor phrasing on your part that led to an inference on mine.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The ways you get inspiration for Devotion are all Good, but only one of the <em>motivations </em>is actually really Good. People are Devoted to all manner of causes, and many of those causes are Not Good, and neither are all of the motivations for that Devotion. Even the description of Devotion says as much: <em>Fanatical, lovestruck, loyal. Devotion can be a pure or foolish thing. A beloved, a nation, a cause—anything may be the object of your Devotion, but very few are worthy of it. For you the choice is clear: the love at the center of your life is worth dying or killing for and there is no limit to your service and sacrifice on its behalf.</em></p><p></p><p>And here are the motivations:</p><p></p><p><em>1 Love. They come first, above the rest of the world if need be.</em></p><p><em>2 Fealty. You swore an oath to the crown and you’ll never break it.</em></p><p><em>3 Questing. You were sent out with a singular goal and will not rest until it’s complete.</em></p><p><em>4 Ideals. You’ve taken up the banner for a cause and you’re willing to die for it.</em></p><p><em>5 A Promise. Mere words to some—an unbreakable pact to you.</em></p><p><em>6 Greater Good. Your needs are so easily outweighed by the needs of others.</em></p><p></p><p>Number 1 could be sweet and pure, or it could be creepy or stalkerish. Numbers 2-5 depends entirely on the decency of the country, quest, ideal, or promise. Only number 6 is pure good.</p><p></p><p>So to me, it sounds like you're hung up on the inspiration mechanic and one of the motivations, and using that to determine the entire Destiny must be Good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I usually play good characters as well. Two of my current characters are good (one's LG, and the other one, who is NG, is for a game that will be starting soon). My third character is CN, but I play her more good than anything else... just prone to poking things she shouldn't.</p><p></p><p></p><p>While I normally don't either, the fact that they come with actual, in-game mechanical benefits almost requires one. 20 x your level gp shows up in your pocket every day? You transform into a creature? Hostile creatures are afraid of you, even if there's no reason for them to know that you have successfully completed your revenge?</p><p></p><p></p><p>You can play a character that is good and strives to be good. Nobody is saying you can't, and that is a perfectly decent motivation. And as I previously pointed out, there are plenty of good motivations for your Destiny, and plenty of motivations that can be used for good, all without declaring that This Destiny Is Good.</p><p></p><p>But historically, D&D hasn't handled Good vs. Evil all that well. Gygax said that if you convert an orc to good, you should immediately kill it because it <em>will </em>eventually backslide. Dragonlance apparently apparently decided that if there's too much good in the world, it would turn to fascism and therefore needed to be in balance with evil. The Book of Exalted Deeds and The Book of Vile Darkness had some pretty screwed up ideas of good versus evil, and mostly just painted Goodness as being just like evil, but wearing a white hat and using different terminology, while also deciding that Evil was just teenage edgy gorn crap and not at all nuanced or interesting. A lot of good monsters were fey with mind-control powers that they used for dubious reasons, and especially in the earlier editions, many monster entries included what parts you could sell--even though the monsters were often fully sentient--and there was no hint that this might not be a good idea.</p><p></p><p><em>And </em>we don't know <em>why </em>LU wants to include auras of Chaos or Law yet.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel like LU is trying to create a system that is fair and doesn't make moral declarations about their PC species, and that the playtesters here are generally against making moral declaration.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, right now, I feel like I'm having the same conversation I have with people who get mad at the idea of not having orcs always be evil--except in reverse.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8119076, member: 6915329"] Some of the things you wrote made me feel like you were. This may have just been poor phrasing on your part that led to an inference on mine. The ways you get inspiration for Devotion are all Good, but only one of the [I]motivations [/I]is actually really Good. People are Devoted to all manner of causes, and many of those causes are Not Good, and neither are all of the motivations for that Devotion. Even the description of Devotion says as much: [I]Fanatical, lovestruck, loyal. Devotion can be a pure or foolish thing. A beloved, a nation, a cause—anything may be the object of your Devotion, but very few are worthy of it. For you the choice is clear: the love at the center of your life is worth dying or killing for and there is no limit to your service and sacrifice on its behalf.[/I] And here are the motivations: [I]1 Love. They come first, above the rest of the world if need be. 2 Fealty. You swore an oath to the crown and you’ll never break it. 3 Questing. You were sent out with a singular goal and will not rest until it’s complete. 4 Ideals. You’ve taken up the banner for a cause and you’re willing to die for it. 5 A Promise. Mere words to some—an unbreakable pact to you. 6 Greater Good. Your needs are so easily outweighed by the needs of others.[/I] Number 1 could be sweet and pure, or it could be creepy or stalkerish. Numbers 2-5 depends entirely on the decency of the country, quest, ideal, or promise. Only number 6 is pure good. So to me, it sounds like you're hung up on the inspiration mechanic and one of the motivations, and using that to determine the entire Destiny must be Good. I usually play good characters as well. Two of my current characters are good (one's LG, and the other one, who is NG, is for a game that will be starting soon). My third character is CN, but I play her more good than anything else... just prone to poking things she shouldn't. While I normally don't either, the fact that they come with actual, in-game mechanical benefits almost requires one. 20 x your level gp shows up in your pocket every day? You transform into a creature? Hostile creatures are afraid of you, even if there's no reason for them to know that you have successfully completed your revenge? You can play a character that is good and strives to be good. Nobody is saying you can't, and that is a perfectly decent motivation. And as I previously pointed out, there are plenty of good motivations for your Destiny, and plenty of motivations that can be used for good, all without declaring that This Destiny Is Good. But historically, D&D hasn't handled Good vs. Evil all that well. Gygax said that if you convert an orc to good, you should immediately kill it because it [I]will [/I]eventually backslide. Dragonlance apparently apparently decided that if there's too much good in the world, it would turn to fascism and therefore needed to be in balance with evil. The Book of Exalted Deeds and The Book of Vile Darkness had some pretty screwed up ideas of good versus evil, and mostly just painted Goodness as being just like evil, but wearing a white hat and using different terminology, while also deciding that Evil was just teenage edgy gorn crap and not at all nuanced or interesting. A lot of good monsters were fey with mind-control powers that they used for dubious reasons, and especially in the earlier editions, many monster entries included what parts you could sell--even though the monsters were often fully sentient--and there was no hint that this might not be a good idea. [I]And [/I]we don't know [I]why [/I]LU wants to include auras of Chaos or Law yet. I feel like LU is trying to create a system that is fair and doesn't make moral declarations about their PC species, and that the playtesters here are generally against making moral declaration. Honestly, right now, I feel like I'm having the same conversation I have with people who get mad at the idea of not having orcs always be evil--except in reverse. [/QUOTE]
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Level Up Playtest Document #5: Inspiration & Destiny
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