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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #10: Adept
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<blockquote data-quote="TheAlkaizer" data-source="post: 8209889" data-attributes="member: 7024893"><p>I haven't given any feedback on anything yet. I'm not sure how pedantic we should get and what type of feedback you're exactly looking for.</p><p></p><p><strong>Name of the Class</strong></p><p>I'm not fond of the name <em>adept</em> at all. It's a simple detail, but it's such an imprecise word. By its definition, it can apply to almost any typical fantasy class which are generally specialist with one or few set of skills. The word <em>adept</em> does not suggest a fighter, pugilist or anything of the sort.</p><p></p><p><strong>Unarmored Defense & Brutal Defense language</strong></p><p>My only comment would be that you use very different languages for both features. Unarmored defense is the original description by WotC, and it simply states how to calculate your AC. Your feature (brutal defense) has a more natural language approach to it. Whatever you choose, I would use the same for both.</p><p></p><p><strong>Brutal Defense</strong></p><p>I <em>really</em> like having more options to opt into a strength-based monk. One of my favourite things of 4E was the inclusion of a Brutal Scoundrel thug-type for the Rogue class. However, from the wording, you <em>only</em> use your strength if you wear light armor.</p><p></p><p>So, if I use a medium armor like, let's say a Breastplate, my AC will be 14 + my dex? And if I wear no armor at all, it will use dexterity for my AC? Why not have the feature just switch to strength for every calculations? There's already incentives to use the lighter armor because they don't cap the bonus you get from your ability modifier.</p><p></p><p><strong>Martial Arts</strong></p><p>I noticed that the second paragraph <em>"You gain the following [...]"</em> only has one difference from the original one, it doesn't mention <em>"you aren't wearing armor"</em>. This is probably so it works with the Brutal Defense feature, but what are the consequences on builds that go for a more traditional Unarmored Defense approach?</p><p></p><p><strong>Exertion Pool</strong></p><p>I'm not fond of the approach of mentioning the exertion currency once (page 4) and stating that it is twice your proficiency bonus, and then realizing that this isn't actually true because I've got bonus exertion (page 7). Also, that would mean that a player of level 1 would have access to a pool of two exertion points without having any means to spend them as both Maneuvers and Focus are available at level 2.</p><p></p><p>I think the current presentation is more complicated than it should: maybe just have one column in the main class table with the number of Exertion points you have at a given level, just like they did with Ki? That seems more straightforward and simple to me.</p><p></p><p><strong>General Layout</strong></p><p>My opinion is that the order in which you present things is very overwhelming. What you're presenting here has a little bit more meat to it than the 5E equivalent and the order in which you present things is very important for a smooth assimilation. I have to admit that half-way through I was a bit confused between Maneuvers, Focus, and all that.</p><p></p><p>Simplified enough, here's the journey you're taking me on:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 1st level, you start with these two features: Adroit Defense and Martial Arts. Cool.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 2nd level, you'll have to choose traditions and from these traditions you'll choose maneuvers. But we're not going to present any of them now. You use Exertion to do these Maneuvers. I don't know what Exertion is yet. <em>This is now in my mind, and it's noise. You opened something, and didn't close it.</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 2nd level, you have a resource called Exertion (<em>ah, here it is</em>) and you can use it to do Focus. You start with three: here they are. Cool.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 2nd level, you also get to pick exploration knacks. But we're not going to present any of them right now. <em>More noise</em>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 3rd level, you'll chose an archetype, it's a specialization. Then it mentions traditions? Wait, is it an archetype or a tradition? I'm not shown any example. <em>Third box opened, still unresolved. Now I've got a ton on my mind: features, maneuvers, focus, knacks, traditions, archetypes</em>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 3rd level, you choose Focus Features. There's restrictions. Wait. Are they they related to my tradition? No. Wait, I'm mixing stuff up. They're not the same thing.</li> </ul><p>As mentioned, I'm told of Features, Maneuvers, Exertion pool, Exertion Focus, Exploration Knacks, Archetypes, Traditions, Focus Features. This is a lot. I definitely think you need to:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Trim a little bit of stuff: like the Bonus Exertion Pool as its paragraph seems, at first glance, useless and could just be one column in the table with how many points you have at each level.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Clean the language a little bit, there's a lot of words being thrown around. Exertion Pool is one thing. Exertion Focus is another. Focus Features seems to be another. Are Archetypes traditions?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reorganize things thematically. You could talk about the first two features. Then you could talk about the Exploration Knacks: I understand why they're at the end. Then you could explain that the Adept has a pool of Exertion Points used to <em>both</em> use Maneuvers and Focus. You talk the maneuvers. Then you talk about the three Focus that you have by default. Then you talk about the additional Focus that you get. I don't want to jump from Focus, to Knacks, to Archetypes, back to Focus, back to Knacks.</li> </ul><p>To be transparent, 5E does this stuff alot and it drives me mad. So you and your team are not doing it better or worse, but by basing yourself on the structure of the 5E books I see the same issue coming up and as you have a little bit more crunch and choice to your product, it definitely hurts a bit more.</p><p></p><p>It was only a first read, it's getting a bit late here. I'll dig in the actual features, mechanics and focus another time. Cheers!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheAlkaizer, post: 8209889, member: 7024893"] I haven't given any feedback on anything yet. I'm not sure how pedantic we should get and what type of feedback you're exactly looking for. [B]Name of the Class[/B] I'm not fond of the name [I]adept[/I] at all. It's a simple detail, but it's such an imprecise word. By its definition, it can apply to almost any typical fantasy class which are generally specialist with one or few set of skills. The word [I]adept[/I] does not suggest a fighter, pugilist or anything of the sort. [B]Unarmored Defense & Brutal Defense language[/B] My only comment would be that you use very different languages for both features. Unarmored defense is the original description by WotC, and it simply states how to calculate your AC. Your feature (brutal defense) has a more natural language approach to it. Whatever you choose, I would use the same for both. [B]Brutal Defense[/B] I [I]really[/I] like having more options to opt into a strength-based monk. One of my favourite things of 4E was the inclusion of a Brutal Scoundrel thug-type for the Rogue class. However, from the wording, you [I]only[/I] use your strength if you wear light armor. So, if I use a medium armor like, let's say a Breastplate, my AC will be 14 + my dex? And if I wear no armor at all, it will use dexterity for my AC? Why not have the feature just switch to strength for every calculations? There's already incentives to use the lighter armor because they don't cap the bonus you get from your ability modifier. [B]Martial Arts[/B] I noticed that the second paragraph [I]"You gain the following [...]"[/I] only has one difference from the original one, it doesn't mention [I]"you aren't wearing armor"[/I]. This is probably so it works with the Brutal Defense feature, but what are the consequences on builds that go for a more traditional Unarmored Defense approach? [B]Exertion Pool[/B] I'm not fond of the approach of mentioning the exertion currency once (page 4) and stating that it is twice your proficiency bonus, and then realizing that this isn't actually true because I've got bonus exertion (page 7). Also, that would mean that a player of level 1 would have access to a pool of two exertion points without having any means to spend them as both Maneuvers and Focus are available at level 2. I think the current presentation is more complicated than it should: maybe just have one column in the main class table with the number of Exertion points you have at a given level, just like they did with Ki? That seems more straightforward and simple to me. [B]General Layout[/B] My opinion is that the order in which you present things is very overwhelming. What you're presenting here has a little bit more meat to it than the 5E equivalent and the order in which you present things is very important for a smooth assimilation. I have to admit that half-way through I was a bit confused between Maneuvers, Focus, and all that. Simplified enough, here's the journey you're taking me on: [LIST] [*]At 1st level, you start with these two features: Adroit Defense and Martial Arts. Cool. [*]At 2nd level, you'll have to choose traditions and from these traditions you'll choose maneuvers. But we're not going to present any of them now. You use Exertion to do these Maneuvers. I don't know what Exertion is yet. [I]This is now in my mind, and it's noise. You opened something, and didn't close it.[/I] [*]At 2nd level, you have a resource called Exertion ([I]ah, here it is[/I]) and you can use it to do Focus. You start with three: here they are. Cool. [*]At 2nd level, you also get to pick exploration knacks. But we're not going to present any of them right now. [I]More noise[/I]. [*]At 3rd level, you'll chose an archetype, it's a specialization. Then it mentions traditions? Wait, is it an archetype or a tradition? I'm not shown any example. [I]Third box opened, still unresolved. Now I've got a ton on my mind: features, maneuvers, focus, knacks, traditions, archetypes[/I]. [*]At 3rd level, you choose Focus Features. There's restrictions. Wait. Are they they related to my tradition? No. Wait, I'm mixing stuff up. They're not the same thing. [/LIST] As mentioned, I'm told of Features, Maneuvers, Exertion pool, Exertion Focus, Exploration Knacks, Archetypes, Traditions, Focus Features. This is a lot. I definitely think you need to: [LIST] [*]Trim a little bit of stuff: like the Bonus Exertion Pool as its paragraph seems, at first glance, useless and could just be one column in the table with how many points you have at each level. [*]Clean the language a little bit, there's a lot of words being thrown around. Exertion Pool is one thing. Exertion Focus is another. Focus Features seems to be another. Are Archetypes traditions? [*]Reorganize things thematically. You could talk about the first two features. Then you could talk about the Exploration Knacks: I understand why they're at the end. Then you could explain that the Adept has a pool of Exertion Points used to [I]both[/I] use Maneuvers and Focus. You talk the maneuvers. Then you talk about the three Focus that you have by default. Then you talk about the additional Focus that you get. I don't want to jump from Focus, to Knacks, to Archetypes, back to Focus, back to Knacks. [/LIST] To be transparent, 5E does this stuff alot and it drives me mad. So you and your team are not doing it better or worse, but by basing yourself on the structure of the 5E books I see the same issue coming up and as you have a little bit more crunch and choice to your product, it definitely hurts a bit more. It was only a first read, it's getting a bit late here. I'll dig in the actual features, mechanics and focus another time. Cheers! [/QUOTE]
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