Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level = Challenge Rating
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 9337978" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>The post refers to "average" monster hit points. There are "outliers" but most are reasonably comparable with average amounts of hit points. The distances mainly rely on concept.</p><p></p><p>Hit point outliers include very high where Solos conflate more than one creature, and very low where virtual hit points mitigate any damage, such as being incorporeal.</p><p></p><p>There are also tradeoffs between defense and offense.</p><p></p><p>That said, normal player characters also run the gambit from high hit points to low hit points.</p><p></p><p>Criteria for player characters can quantify the monsters in Mordenkainen to determine an equivalent player character level. Outliers can be accounted for.</p><p></p><p>Hit points are the "currency" to "purchase" powers. Any Level budget that remains unspent defaults to an amount of extra hit points. Accounting for hit points is the easiest part of determining a Level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, any Level system needs to apply to every monster in Mordenkainen, including the outliers. This is doable.</p><p></p><p>Outliers happen with player characters too. For example, I normally dont want to see them with unlimited flight during Levels 1 thru 4. But it sometimes happens, and there are ways to quantify this, in terms of game balance. I prefer limited forms of flight at low tier. But even full flight can be accommodated. Similar concerns arise with the early uses of magic items.</p><p></p><p>DMs can freeform a new monster however one wants, and a methodology can assess how much a benefit is worth, and approximate the overall player character Level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Outliers are important. For monsters and player characters.</p><p></p><p>At the same time, when there is an outlier, there needs to be a self-evident way to convey how powerful this will be in combat. In other words, a player character level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This trade-off between offense and defense can be true for player characters as well.</p><p></p><p>The budget for each Level can measure it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Regarding magic items, I prefer a high magic setting with abundant magic, but "attunement" mitigating how many items each character can utilize.</p><p></p><p>I dont like "magic loot", unless the monsters are first using the magic item against the players. Of course, this makes the combat more deadly for the players.</p><p></p><p>I feel magic items should come with a Level prereq. Certain items are only attunable at a certain level. A DM can override this (via an "artifact" that any one can use), but if a DM does this, at least the DM has a sense of the power imbalance one is getting oneself into. In terms of Level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A system of assigning playable character Levels to any monster, requires a mechanic for assessing and building a "Solo", where defacto mechanics for a group of creatures functions as if a single creature. The Solo has multiple times more hit points, extra attacks at multiple targets, and similar, all the while remaining within "bounded accuracy".</p><p></p><p>This situation seems unusual for a typical player character, but it does happen. A summoning spell allows a character to effectively be two or more creatures, including additional hit points to deplete and multiple attacks. It happens by other means as well.</p><p></p><p>With regard to the "budget" for a particular Level, an Elite is like a player playing two separate characters. A Solo is like playing three or more characters. A subtler version of this is stats approximating the accompaniment of a summoning spell.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 9337978, member: 58172"] The post refers to "average" monster hit points. There are "outliers" but most are reasonably comparable with average amounts of hit points. The distances mainly rely on concept. Hit point outliers include very high where Solos conflate more than one creature, and very low where virtual hit points mitigate any damage, such as being incorporeal. There are also tradeoffs between defense and offense. That said, normal player characters also run the gambit from high hit points to low hit points. Criteria for player characters can quantify the monsters in Mordenkainen to determine an equivalent player character level. Outliers can be accounted for. Hit points are the "currency" to "purchase" powers. Any Level budget that remains unspent defaults to an amount of extra hit points. Accounting for hit points is the easiest part of determining a Level. I agree, any Level system needs to apply to every monster in Mordenkainen, including the outliers. This is doable. Outliers happen with player characters too. For example, I normally dont want to see them with unlimited flight during Levels 1 thru 4. But it sometimes happens, and there are ways to quantify this, in terms of game balance. I prefer limited forms of flight at low tier. But even full flight can be accommodated. Similar concerns arise with the early uses of magic items. DMs can freeform a new monster however one wants, and a methodology can assess how much a benefit is worth, and approximate the overall player character Level. Outliers are important. For monsters and player characters. At the same time, when there is an outlier, there needs to be a self-evident way to convey how powerful this will be in combat. In other words, a player character level. This trade-off between offense and defense can be true for player characters as well. The budget for each Level can measure it. Regarding magic items, I prefer a high magic setting with abundant magic, but "attunement" mitigating how many items each character can utilize. I dont like "magic loot", unless the monsters are first using the magic item against the players. Of course, this makes the combat more deadly for the players. I feel magic items should come with a Level prereq. Certain items are only attunable at a certain level. A DM can override this (via an "artifact" that any one can use), but if a DM does this, at least the DM has a sense of the power imbalance one is getting oneself into. In terms of Level. A system of assigning playable character Levels to any monster, requires a mechanic for assessing and building a "Solo", where defacto mechanics for a group of creatures functions as if a single creature. The Solo has multiple times more hit points, extra attacks at multiple targets, and similar, all the while remaining within "bounded accuracy". This situation seems unusual for a typical player character, but it does happen. A summoning spell allows a character to effectively be two or more creatures, including additional hit points to deplete and multiple attacks. It happens by other means as well. With regard to the "budget" for a particular Level, an Elite is like a player playing two separate characters. A Solo is like playing three or more characters. A subtler version of this is stats approximating the accompaniment of a summoning spell. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level = Challenge Rating
Top