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<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 8775165" data-attributes="member: 6680772"><p>This is just a personal, subjective rambling, and so probably deserves several grains of salt, but one thing I find interesting is that in general western RPG culture tries to establish distance from video games. I imagine TRPG designers look to CRPGs from a wider, games theory perspective, but I don't think the generally look to them for mechanical inspiration. And in the most notable case where that did happen, it was not favorably received, at least in terms of the discussion. Setting aside the merits of the claim of MMORPGs on 4e, in as far as the <em>discussion</em> about that went, such influence was meant as a critique, and the most common <em>response</em> to that critique was to dispute the degree of influence. Some have surely said, "Yes, it was influenced by video games, and there it is awesome!" but I think that was a minority opinion. (Again, only referring to the discussion here. I suspect that in actual play, any such influence was welcomed or passed over with little to no thought.)</p><p></p><p>In contrast, Japanese TRPGs seem to lean in to the relationship with CRPGs. Mechanics are foregrounded. The most obvious example of this in Sword World is Monster Knowledge Checks. In 4e, for example, which among D&D editions had those most fleshed out analogue for this kind of check, a Knowledge check provided varying degrees of ecological and behavioral knowledge. In Sword World? By the book, the GM straight up shows the players the monster's stats. When standard play is already so meta, I can't imagine video-game inspired mechanics or rules provide much in the way of friction.</p><p></p><p>One reason I think for this is that, in the US, at least, TRPGs came first, rose to a certain degree of prominence, and were the primary inspiration for the CRPGs that came after. Whereas in Japan, CRPG development came out of the already existing western CRPGs, rather than the TRPGs in the first place. Dragon Quest was very specifically designed to combine the best parts of Wizardry with the best parts of Ultima. That the result happened to resemble D&D was beside the point. </p><p></p><p>I was listening to a podcast interview with Andy Kitkowski, and he suggested a very interesting theory/take. Essentially, there had historically been about a 10 year lag for western pop cultural influences to reach Japan, and TRPGs were no exception. Just about 10 years after TRPGs came on the scene in the US, they took root in Japan. But just as they were getting established, seemingly poised to gain mindshare among the youth in Japan, the Famicom hit the shelves. Shinwa published the first official translation of D&D in 1985. What else came out in 1985? Dragon Quest, indisputably the biggest, most popular game series in Japan.</p><p></p><p>But we can go even further. For the last few years, Call of Cthulhu has been the top TRPG in Japan. But what was the impetus for its sudden growth and popularity? Not actual plays by live players, a la Critical Role. It was video "replays" of the game that used vocaloids for all voices, and featured the kind of pop-up character animation found in dating sims and cell-phone based CRPGs. </p><p></p><p>Western TRPGs came first, and were popular first, and there's a certain pride in that. Even as they are now eclipsed by such derivitive works, they define themselves by how they are different from CRPGs. Japanese TRPG culture has always been in the shadow of CRPGs, and so has always found it amenable to make common cause with them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 8775165, member: 6680772"] This is just a personal, subjective rambling, and so probably deserves several grains of salt, but one thing I find interesting is that in general western RPG culture tries to establish distance from video games. I imagine TRPG designers look to CRPGs from a wider, games theory perspective, but I don't think the generally look to them for mechanical inspiration. And in the most notable case where that did happen, it was not favorably received, at least in terms of the discussion. Setting aside the merits of the claim of MMORPGs on 4e, in as far as the [I]discussion[/I] about that went, such influence was meant as a critique, and the most common [I]response[/I] to that critique was to dispute the degree of influence. Some have surely said, "Yes, it was influenced by video games, and there it is awesome!" but I think that was a minority opinion. (Again, only referring to the discussion here. I suspect that in actual play, any such influence was welcomed or passed over with little to no thought.) In contrast, Japanese TRPGs seem to lean in to the relationship with CRPGs. Mechanics are foregrounded. The most obvious example of this in Sword World is Monster Knowledge Checks. In 4e, for example, which among D&D editions had those most fleshed out analogue for this kind of check, a Knowledge check provided varying degrees of ecological and behavioral knowledge. In Sword World? By the book, the GM straight up shows the players the monster's stats. When standard play is already so meta, I can't imagine video-game inspired mechanics or rules provide much in the way of friction. One reason I think for this is that, in the US, at least, TRPGs came first, rose to a certain degree of prominence, and were the primary inspiration for the CRPGs that came after. Whereas in Japan, CRPG development came out of the already existing western CRPGs, rather than the TRPGs in the first place. Dragon Quest was very specifically designed to combine the best parts of Wizardry with the best parts of Ultima. That the result happened to resemble D&D was beside the point. I was listening to a podcast interview with Andy Kitkowski, and he suggested a very interesting theory/take. Essentially, there had historically been about a 10 year lag for western pop cultural influences to reach Japan, and TRPGs were no exception. Just about 10 years after TRPGs came on the scene in the US, they took root in Japan. But just as they were getting established, seemingly poised to gain mindshare among the youth in Japan, the Famicom hit the shelves. Shinwa published the first official translation of D&D in 1985. What else came out in 1985? Dragon Quest, indisputably the biggest, most popular game series in Japan. But we can go even further. For the last few years, Call of Cthulhu has been the top TRPG in Japan. But what was the impetus for its sudden growth and popularity? Not actual plays by live players, a la Critical Role. It was video "replays" of the game that used vocaloids for all voices, and featured the kind of pop-up character animation found in dating sims and cell-phone based CRPGs. Western TRPGs came first, and were popular first, and there's a certain pride in that. Even as they are now eclipsed by such derivitive works, they define themselves by how they are different from CRPGs. Japanese TRPG culture has always been in the shadow of CRPGs, and so has always found it amenable to make common cause with them. [/QUOTE]
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