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Inquiry: How do 4E fans feel about 4E Essentials?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8440043" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Eldritch Knight wasn't really meant to be a swordmage. It was meant to be an AD&D Fighter/Magic User and a 3.X core Fighter/Wizard/Eldrich Knight (which was a patch in 3.X to make the AD&D Fighter/Magic User work). The swordmage was a far more specific class than that. And frankly the 5e Eldritch Knight was a better Eldritch Knight than the 3.X one (not a high bar).</p><p></p><p>You're looking in the wrong place there. The 5e fighter gets extra feats for a reason - and the Sentinel feat makes up most of the 4e fighter's basic package; the ability to punish shifts (or disengages), the ability to punish people who attack people other than you, and the ability to flatten speeds to zero. It's a legit defender package, and you get a fighting style and subclass on top of that. It's a late start - but not that late given that 4e level 1 is about 5e level 3 and you can get this at 4th level.</p><p></p><p>Is it ever going to be as fun tactically? No. 5e is not that sort of game. But in this case it's not the defender that 5e is missing but the hordebreaker. On the other hand with multiple attacks per turn by default the 5e fighter is better at hordebreaking than a fighter that <em>hasn't</em> focused on hordebreaking.</p><p></p><p>It was an active design choice that they didn't want minion rules in the game, just "bounded accuracy". One of the many <em>many</em> choices I disagree with.</p><p></p><p><em>So what?</em> Just because some people have Int and Cha doesn't mean that some don't want one and some the other.</p><p></p><p>The thing is that power selection means that you can't have a Wizard who can do EVERYTHING. You don't have the monster spellbooks. You can just make different wizard builds to do different things. And they didn't know what a controller was at first, just that they needed one and the wizard started too weak (although I agree it ended too strong).</p><p></p><p>Honestly if someone works out a striker wizard build that isn't a controller I don't care. I only really start caring if they can be a striker while keeping most of the control.</p><p></p><p>The warlord I think was on purpose. The Swordmage I don't see any malice in; it wasn't a PHB class and they had more than enough to do getting the PHB classes in there. Especially when multiple classes I'd consider far closer thematically to their 4e incarnations than to other editions (most notably the warlock, paladin, sorcerer, barbarian, rogue, and probably monk)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8440043, member: 87792"] Eldritch Knight wasn't really meant to be a swordmage. It was meant to be an AD&D Fighter/Magic User and a 3.X core Fighter/Wizard/Eldrich Knight (which was a patch in 3.X to make the AD&D Fighter/Magic User work). The swordmage was a far more specific class than that. And frankly the 5e Eldritch Knight was a better Eldritch Knight than the 3.X one (not a high bar). You're looking in the wrong place there. The 5e fighter gets extra feats for a reason - and the Sentinel feat makes up most of the 4e fighter's basic package; the ability to punish shifts (or disengages), the ability to punish people who attack people other than you, and the ability to flatten speeds to zero. It's a legit defender package, and you get a fighting style and subclass on top of that. It's a late start - but not that late given that 4e level 1 is about 5e level 3 and you can get this at 4th level. Is it ever going to be as fun tactically? No. 5e is not that sort of game. But in this case it's not the defender that 5e is missing but the hordebreaker. On the other hand with multiple attacks per turn by default the 5e fighter is better at hordebreaking than a fighter that [I]hasn't[/I] focused on hordebreaking. It was an active design choice that they didn't want minion rules in the game, just "bounded accuracy". One of the many [I]many[/I] choices I disagree with. [I]So what?[/I] Just because some people have Int and Cha doesn't mean that some don't want one and some the other. The thing is that power selection means that you can't have a Wizard who can do EVERYTHING. You don't have the monster spellbooks. You can just make different wizard builds to do different things. And they didn't know what a controller was at first, just that they needed one and the wizard started too weak (although I agree it ended too strong). Honestly if someone works out a striker wizard build that isn't a controller I don't care. I only really start caring if they can be a striker while keeping most of the control. The warlord I think was on purpose. The Swordmage I don't see any malice in; it wasn't a PHB class and they had more than enough to do getting the PHB classes in there. Especially when multiple classes I'd consider far closer thematically to their 4e incarnations than to other editions (most notably the warlock, paladin, sorcerer, barbarian, rogue, and probably monk) [/QUOTE]
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