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Encounter Balance holds back 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9332027" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>But what if the Paladin or worse the Cleric does not have religion proficiency? Are you saying they should know nothing about religion and they should not even have a chance to make that check .... despite the fact they pray every day? What if the Rogue is the one with Religion proficiency (or even expertise)?</p><p></p><p>And you are saying the Barbarian with an 8 should just not be allowed to ever talk to someone and try to get them to do something? If the town magistrate asks the Barbarian if the party stole the King's jewels (which would call for deception) is he not allowed to talk in your games? ... or is it an automatic fail? ......</p><p></p><p>Or would the magistrate just never ask him that? .... so as long as the Bard was not in the room they would never get caught and having the Bard available to make a charisma check only weakens the party.</p><p></p><p>Now here is a curveball - what about when my max-Wisdom Ranger with a 14 Charisma takes expertise in Persuasion and then goes Fey Wanderer and can destroy the Bard on Persuasion checks, while also being equal or better on Performance and Deception. After 3rd level, should those skills now be protected for me and the Bard should no longer be allowed to make Persuasion and performance checks since I am the best at it now?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know of any gated proficiency checks in the WOTC adventures. Do you have examples?</p><p></p><p>IME it is the opposite. WOTC products call for ungated checks all the time. Phandelver for example calls for ungated Perception to find the trap in Cragmaw and in the Redbrands hideout, ungated Pesuasion to convince Agatha to answer a question, ungated acrobatics to walk across the ledge, ungated thieves tools check to pick the lock to the Redbrands prison or alternatively an ungated athletics check to break it open, ungated history to know about the mine. I am DMing this campaign right now, the party is level 4 and I can't think of a single gated check that the game has called for so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9332027, member: 7030563"] But what if the Paladin or worse the Cleric does not have religion proficiency? Are you saying they should know nothing about religion and they should not even have a chance to make that check .... despite the fact they pray every day? What if the Rogue is the one with Religion proficiency (or even expertise)? And you are saying the Barbarian with an 8 should just not be allowed to ever talk to someone and try to get them to do something? If the town magistrate asks the Barbarian if the party stole the King's jewels (which would call for deception) is he not allowed to talk in your games? ... or is it an automatic fail? ...... Or would the magistrate just never ask him that? .... so as long as the Bard was not in the room they would never get caught and having the Bard available to make a charisma check only weakens the party. Now here is a curveball - what about when my max-Wisdom Ranger with a 14 Charisma takes expertise in Persuasion and then goes Fey Wanderer and can destroy the Bard on Persuasion checks, while also being equal or better on Performance and Deception. After 3rd level, should those skills now be protected for me and the Bard should no longer be allowed to make Persuasion and performance checks since I am the best at it now? I don't know of any gated proficiency checks in the WOTC adventures. Do you have examples? IME it is the opposite. WOTC products call for ungated checks all the time. Phandelver for example calls for ungated Perception to find the trap in Cragmaw and in the Redbrands hideout, ungated Pesuasion to convince Agatha to answer a question, ungated acrobatics to walk across the ledge, ungated thieves tools check to pick the lock to the Redbrands prison or alternatively an ungated athletics check to break it open, ungated history to know about the mine. I am DMing this campaign right now, the party is level 4 and I can't think of a single gated check that the game has called for so far. [/QUOTE]
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