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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8838487" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>First off, cool write up about the time dragons! I might just have to swipe a bit of that... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Because that's what the mechanics are there for: to take the underlying fiction and quantify it for gameplay purposes; and from what you say below I think we even agree on that much.</p><p></p><p>Consistency, and consistency. Two different variants, here explained.</p><p></p><p>Consistency 1 - Grog the Ogre is Grog the Ogre, whether he's raiding a village full of peasants or getting slaughtered by a bunch of 16th-level adventurers or just happily going about his day in the forest. His mechanics should reflect what he actually is, without regard for external concerns. If his mechanics are, however, set only by the way others perceive him, then there's a consistency problem.</p><p></p><p>For example, if Grog is terrorizing a village full of peasants as an 85 h.p. elite and then three 14th-level knights come riding in who see him as little more than a 1 h.p. minion (and his mechanics correspondingly change to reflect this), does that mean the next peasant to lay a scratch on Grog kills him? It shouldn't; and that's where the consistency issue arises. Put another way, 6 points of damage from a peasant should count exactly the same against Grog as six points of damage from a 14th-level knight, both mechanically at the table and narratively in the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Consistency 2 - if I'm a 4th-level Cleric with x-amount of spells per day and 32 h.p., it doesn't matter whether I'm facing a single unarmed peasant bandit or a bloody great big nasty dragon or just puttering about in my temple: my own mechanics don't change. I still have 32 h.p. and the same number of spells regardless of my surroundings. If it works this way for me - that my mechanics remain static in any situation - it should work this way for every other inhabitant of the setting; that it doesn't is consistency problem number 2.</p><p></p><p>Worth noting here that the PCs are <em>not</em> the only inhabitants of the setting whose perception matters.</p><p></p><p>The mechanics are there to - consistently, one hopes! - reflect the fictional reality, not the fictional perception of reality. Your way is trying to mechanize the perception, which becomes a hopeless task the moment you have multiple entities in the same scene who would perceive that scene differently (e.g. how the knights and peasants perceive Grog). Yes the players don't see the stat blocks, but the DM does; and the DM needs something concrete to work with.</p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>No. The rules are how they interact with one another.</p><p></p><p>Particularly in combat, the narration describes those interactions and, sometimes, also puts the mechanics into non-mechanical words. But note: the narration only <em>describes</em> those interactions, it doesn't (or shouldn't) materially affect them; much like a play-by-play commentator can only use words to describe what's happening on the field while being unable to materially affect those events.</p><p></p><p>Here the to-hit roll is the event, and the DM's reaction to that roll ("you hit" or "you miss", often in more flowery terms) is the play by play.</p><p></p><p>Same is true when narrating a monster. I can narrate Grog any way I want but my narration doesn't and shouldn't materially affect his underlying mechanics, which were already there before the PCs ever saw him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8838487, member: 29398"] First off, cool write up about the time dragons! I might just have to swipe a bit of that... :) Because that's what the mechanics are there for: to take the underlying fiction and quantify it for gameplay purposes; and from what you say below I think we even agree on that much. Consistency, and consistency. Two different variants, here explained. Consistency 1 - Grog the Ogre is Grog the Ogre, whether he's raiding a village full of peasants or getting slaughtered by a bunch of 16th-level adventurers or just happily going about his day in the forest. His mechanics should reflect what he actually is, without regard for external concerns. If his mechanics are, however, set only by the way others perceive him, then there's a consistency problem. For example, if Grog is terrorizing a village full of peasants as an 85 h.p. elite and then three 14th-level knights come riding in who see him as little more than a 1 h.p. minion (and his mechanics correspondingly change to reflect this), does that mean the next peasant to lay a scratch on Grog kills him? It shouldn't; and that's where the consistency issue arises. Put another way, 6 points of damage from a peasant should count exactly the same against Grog as six points of damage from a 14th-level knight, both mechanically at the table and narratively in the fiction. Consistency 2 - if I'm a 4th-level Cleric with x-amount of spells per day and 32 h.p., it doesn't matter whether I'm facing a single unarmed peasant bandit or a bloody great big nasty dragon or just puttering about in my temple: my own mechanics don't change. I still have 32 h.p. and the same number of spells regardless of my surroundings. If it works this way for me - that my mechanics remain static in any situation - it should work this way for every other inhabitant of the setting; that it doesn't is consistency problem number 2. Worth noting here that the PCs are [I]not[/I] the only inhabitants of the setting whose perception matters. The mechanics are there to - consistently, one hopes! - reflect the fictional reality, not the fictional perception of reality. Your way is trying to mechanize the perception, which becomes a hopeless task the moment you have multiple entities in the same scene who would perceive that scene differently (e.g. how the knights and peasants perceive Grog). Yes the players don't see the stat blocks, but the DM does; and the DM needs something concrete to work with. Yes. No. The rules are how they interact with one another. Particularly in combat, the narration describes those interactions and, sometimes, also puts the mechanics into non-mechanical words. But note: the narration only [I]describes[/I] those interactions, it doesn't (or shouldn't) materially affect them; much like a play-by-play commentator can only use words to describe what's happening on the field while being unable to materially affect those events. Here the to-hit roll is the event, and the DM's reaction to that roll ("you hit" or "you miss", often in more flowery terms) is the play by play. Same is true when narrating a monster. I can narrate Grog any way I want but my narration doesn't and shouldn't materially affect his underlying mechanics, which were already there before the PCs ever saw him. [/QUOTE]
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