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D&D Older Editions
Changing the Combat Parameters of 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7221424" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Hey, I don't think its worth getting into a huge debate over, but I would point out that your number 1 and your number 2 are telling against each other. IMHO nobody wants to sit through dull unimportant dross at the table. Point 2 isn't so bad, but it clearly tells me that you always want to avoid point 1! </p><p></p><p>As for point 2... I don't feel like I need to use that sort of ruse to create tension. There's a LOT of ways to create tension, and if you meet 20 opponents and we throw down the battlemat then tension is there, because its a big fight! Why bother to then let everyone down with a bunch of minions? I mean, minions are great, but I would rather use them for the sort of set dressing they are made for, "yeah, you carve your way through those 20 ninjas and confront the big guy!" This is one of the reasons I found all the arguments for 'tough minions' and such to be largely missing the point too. They SHOULD be trivial. </p><p></p><p>Now, when I expand the scope of my thinking from "that bunch of minions over there" to "that encounter over there" then I think "Well, this encounter is trivial, its purpose is to provide some verisimilitude/color and allow for a chance that the alarm gets set off, but there's no real combat stakes. I know, I'll make it an SC!" I mean, you probably can't do that in the midst of a combat, hence minions, but in the larger framework of an adventure I see a lot of these things as low complexity SCs with tangential stakes, they can bring about slightly different downstream results, but they're not presenting something like the chance of defeat that would really fully justify the table time expense of combat. </p><p></p><p>I do get that 4.5e has a little bit different goal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7221424, member: 82106"] Hey, I don't think its worth getting into a huge debate over, but I would point out that your number 1 and your number 2 are telling against each other. IMHO nobody wants to sit through dull unimportant dross at the table. Point 2 isn't so bad, but it clearly tells me that you always want to avoid point 1! As for point 2... I don't feel like I need to use that sort of ruse to create tension. There's a LOT of ways to create tension, and if you meet 20 opponents and we throw down the battlemat then tension is there, because its a big fight! Why bother to then let everyone down with a bunch of minions? I mean, minions are great, but I would rather use them for the sort of set dressing they are made for, "yeah, you carve your way through those 20 ninjas and confront the big guy!" This is one of the reasons I found all the arguments for 'tough minions' and such to be largely missing the point too. They SHOULD be trivial. Now, when I expand the scope of my thinking from "that bunch of minions over there" to "that encounter over there" then I think "Well, this encounter is trivial, its purpose is to provide some verisimilitude/color and allow for a chance that the alarm gets set off, but there's no real combat stakes. I know, I'll make it an SC!" I mean, you probably can't do that in the midst of a combat, hence minions, but in the larger framework of an adventure I see a lot of these things as low complexity SCs with tangential stakes, they can bring about slightly different downstream results, but they're not presenting something like the chance of defeat that would really fully justify the table time expense of combat. I do get that 4.5e has a little bit different goal. [/QUOTE]
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