Level Up (A5E) Changing Mechanics or Adding to Them

[Morrus]

This isn't about what we want, it is about the design goals of the developers... and for that I am simply waiting a response from someone (ahem, Morris?) in position of authority.

This will be very much a data-led decision, but it looks at this stage like folks want a full spell-less ranger class. However, we will drill down and find out for sure.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Thanks for responding!

Yep; a revised class is fully backward compatible in the same way that a new class is.

By backward compatible we mean you can use 5E stuff in Level Up. It doesn't mean you can necessarily do the reverse, though I imagine 99% of the time that won't be a problem.

So, would changing death saves from an untied save to a Constitution check fall in your vision of Level Up? Or are you focused on keeping existing mechanics the same? For instance, I know in the other thread I mentioned stackable advantage/disadvantage. It is the same mechanic (mostly), you just use more of it (so to speak...).

For death saves, it would represent a large change to the mechanic, as things like JoAT and Remarkable Athlete would affect a Constitution check. Someone with Enhance Ability on them (for CON) would gain advantage on death save "checks", etc.

To my mind, increasing the DC from 10 to 15 would keep in more compatible than changing the mechanic from a save to a check, but I am interested in your views on it.

This will be very much a data-led decision, but it looks at this stage like folks want a full spell-less ranger class. However, we will drill down and find out for sure.

Of course, I know you're collecting data to get a feel for what more players are interested in (I am all for a spell-less ranger class myself!) so hopefully when you feel it is complete enough for a starting off point, we'll get to see what areas will be focused on.

 

[Morrus]

So, would changing death saves from an untied save to a Constitution check fall in your vision of Level Up? Or are you focused on keeping existing mechanics the same? For instance, I know in the other thread I mentioned stackable advantage/disadvantage. It is the same mechanic (mostly), you just use more of it (so to speak...).

So... here's the way I see it.

A mechanic like that isn't an actual compatibility issue. You're playing Curse of Strahd using Level Up rules. The important thing is all the monsters and magic items and stuff in CoS work as written in Level Up. The fact that you're using a different death save rule doesn't affect the compatibility of CoS. It might change the deadliness of CoS a bit or something (in the sense that many Level Up is more or less deadly than 5E) but CoS is still fully usable as-is in Level Up.

A compatibility issue arises when you have to run a monster from CoS and it doesn't work in Level Up without some conversion work. That's what we want to avoid with backwards compatibility.

Now, if we change a core mechanic, and 5E has character or monster abilities abilities which hinge off that core mechanic, we might run into a compatibility issue. Because the character class or monster is no longer compatible; but it might still work with the new mechanic. But this is detail stuff which is what we're going to be working hard on. And yes, it will very much limit what we can change.

But we're not planning on making sweeping changes to the core game. it will still very recognizably be the same game.

One approach is that we simply rewrite the abilities. The character has that ability, but now it works this way instead. We don't pan to copy/paste any of the SRD, so every word will be our own words, down to the individual spells. If we change how fireball works, a monster which can cats fireball can still cast fireball, just it works a bit different. That's still compatible.

 

[Nebulous]

I think everything needs to be looked at through the glass as being backwards compatible.

This is important. I don't think the changes many people are wanting or expecting will be as sweeping because of this. It's still the same game. Now, if this was more like a big game hack of alternative rules, like Unearthed Arcana, I would also be happy with that, but I don't think that is the design goal.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So... here's the way I see it.

A mechanic like that isn't an actual compatibility issue. You're playing Curse of Strahd using Level Up rules. The important thing is all the monsters and magic items and stuff in CoS work as written in Level Up. The fact that you're using a different death save rule doesn't affect the compatibility of CoS. It might change the deadliness of CoS a bit or something (in the sense that many Level Up is more or less deadly than 5E) but CoS is still fully usable as-is in Level Up.

A compatibility issue arises when you have to run a monster from CoS and it doesn't work in Level Up without some conversion work. That's what we want to avoid with backwards compatibility.

Now, if we change a core mechanic, and 5E has character or monster abilities abilities which hinge off that core mechanic, we might run into a compatibility issue. Because the character class or monster is no longer compatible; but it might still work with the new mechanic. But this is detail stuff which is what we're going to be working hard on. And yes, it will very much limit what we can change.

But we're not planning on making sweeping changes to the core game. it will still very recognizably be the same game.

One approach is that we simply rewrite the abilities. The character has that ability, but now it works this way instead. We don't pan to copy/paste any of the SRD, so every word will be our own words, down to the individual spells. If we change how fireball works, a monster which can cats fireball can still cast fireball, just it works a bit different. That's still compatible.

That is some excellent clarification! Thank you very much.