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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7833518" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>I'm not following what your actual issue is with the higher levels, but if it's fine up until then the easiest solution as far as house rules goes would be to level cap the campaign. Alternatively, slow the advancement or both.</p><p></p><p>A campaign doesn't need to be or get to high levels to be fun.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Those are opinions. They are also not either/or scenarios. No DM is required to allow all or zero feats. Select which are allowed and don't allow any a person believes to be an issue. As for DEX, I tend to take it on fighters a lot anyway. DEX+stealth gets high enough to scout well on a fighter.</p><p></p><p>Plus, it's hard to obsolesce fighters 3rd attack normally. It's just the lower levels holding that back, and at those levels I don't find the limited spell slots really being an issue for a battle master's expertise dice or eldritch knight's spells in comparison because fighters also have second wind, action surge, and the level 6 bonus ASI. Champion's improved crit and remarkable athlete are pretty niche (2nd fighting style is better and survivor is fantastic) so the levels discussed tend to impact them a bit more.</p><p></p><p>Again, opinion either way. ;-)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on what you are looking for. Type I rolling method with no ability score increases over time meant using an alternative rolling method and typically clerics and druids were limited to 5th level spells (bards still got to 6th level spells easily) while 19 INT or WIS started to work into immunities we would never see on a fighter or thief. Percentile dice STR was dumb, imo; flat out dumb. Non-weapon proficiencies also favored casters who got more than non-casters, although non-weapon proficiencies also could cost multiple costs.</p><p></p><p>On the plus side for some, proficiency checks were very much based on ability scores. Bonuses were practically non-existent outside of the base modification because they required spending additional proficiency slots that pretty much didn't exist for a +1 bonus each. It was much better to just pick another proficiency.</p><p></p><p>I don't actually agree with your "low magic for example".</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]114918[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>The massive number of spell slots compared to 5e more than makes up for the loss of cantrips in 2e, while wizards and bards could just pick up the cantrip spell anyway. Priests had ridiculous numbers of low level slots, required 17 WIS for 6th level spells and 18 WIS for 7th level spells (all bards qualified for 6th level spells) plus those ability scores gave bonuses to low level slots.</p><p></p><p>The difference is rangers and paladins wait longer to get spells but still get close to 5e (the penalty to caster level is more significant) and bards are slowed down comparatively to slots, but like 1e and 3.x they could fling out songs. Unlike 1e and 3.x, they didn't have a level-per-day limit and instead inspiration took 3 rounds, and they moved attitudes (much like 5e's charm spells) instead of zoning them out and granting suggestions. The bard even applies a hefty penalty to the saving throw based on his or her level.</p><p></p><p>I don't think trading off cantrips for spell slots and unlimited songs is low magic at all. It's just lower magic for rangers and paladins. Unless you were planning on only playing low levels in 2e, which makes it moot given you said 5e bugs you at higher levels. If you were to only play low levels then switching would be irrelevant given that restriction.</p><p></p><p>It's hard to call it better for a Game of Thrones campaign with more spell slots in play. I find banning classes or spells, applying a longer rest cycle and healing cycle, and using lingering injuries options to be closer to Game of Thrones than 2e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="https://darksun5e-1.obsidianportal.com/" target="_blank">Darksun 5e</a></p><p><a href="https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LBaY4l6HcR4M-sItfl_" target="_blank">Spelljammer 5e</a></p><p></p><p>Both already have homebrew conversions to 5e, like those 2 examples. Google it and you'll find more. ;-)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It could be an unmodified STR check too, to be in line with 2e's version, and 5e's "other uses for strength checks" and "interacting with objects" in the PHB. Both editions already cover it that way, although 2e's way is a bit awkard. Use athletics if you think it applies. I don't because bending bars doesn't have technical aspect in which to train afaik but that's entirely a DM call.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's an argument of presumption, lol. I think the DMG options and restricting options does what you want far easier than modifying 2e. If you want to play 2e, there's really no reason to tell us about (looks like baiting whether it's meant to or not). I know people who pull out old editions and play them and don't hold an edition preference that doesn't match mine against anyone.</p><p></p><p>Trev Deeley Motorcycles (in Vancouver BC Canada) has a quote on the wall that says, "It doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride."</p><p></p><p>I think that saying applies to D&D as well. It doesn't matter which edition you play as long as you are having fun doing it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7833518, member: 6750235"] I'm not following what your actual issue is with the higher levels, but if it's fine up until then the easiest solution as far as house rules goes would be to level cap the campaign. Alternatively, slow the advancement or both. A campaign doesn't need to be or get to high levels to be fun. Those are opinions. They are also not either/or scenarios. No DM is required to allow all or zero feats. Select which are allowed and don't allow any a person believes to be an issue. As for DEX, I tend to take it on fighters a lot anyway. DEX+stealth gets high enough to scout well on a fighter. Plus, it's hard to obsolesce fighters 3rd attack normally. It's just the lower levels holding that back, and at those levels I don't find the limited spell slots really being an issue for a battle master's expertise dice or eldritch knight's spells in comparison because fighters also have second wind, action surge, and the level 6 bonus ASI. Champion's improved crit and remarkable athlete are pretty niche (2nd fighting style is better and survivor is fantastic) so the levels discussed tend to impact them a bit more. Again, opinion either way. ;-) It depends on what you are looking for. Type I rolling method with no ability score increases over time meant using an alternative rolling method and typically clerics and druids were limited to 5th level spells (bards still got to 6th level spells easily) while 19 INT or WIS started to work into immunities we would never see on a fighter or thief. Percentile dice STR was dumb, imo; flat out dumb. Non-weapon proficiencies also favored casters who got more than non-casters, although non-weapon proficiencies also could cost multiple costs. On the plus side for some, proficiency checks were very much based on ability scores. Bonuses were practically non-existent outside of the base modification because they required spending additional proficiency slots that pretty much didn't exist for a +1 bonus each. It was much better to just pick another proficiency. I don't actually agree with your "low magic for example". [ATTACH type="full"]114918[/ATTACH] The massive number of spell slots compared to 5e more than makes up for the loss of cantrips in 2e, while wizards and bards could just pick up the cantrip spell anyway. Priests had ridiculous numbers of low level slots, required 17 WIS for 6th level spells and 18 WIS for 7th level spells (all bards qualified for 6th level spells) plus those ability scores gave bonuses to low level slots. The difference is rangers and paladins wait longer to get spells but still get close to 5e (the penalty to caster level is more significant) and bards are slowed down comparatively to slots, but like 1e and 3.x they could fling out songs. Unlike 1e and 3.x, they didn't have a level-per-day limit and instead inspiration took 3 rounds, and they moved attitudes (much like 5e's charm spells) instead of zoning them out and granting suggestions. The bard even applies a hefty penalty to the saving throw based on his or her level. I don't think trading off cantrips for spell slots and unlimited songs is low magic at all. It's just lower magic for rangers and paladins. Unless you were planning on only playing low levels in 2e, which makes it moot given you said 5e bugs you at higher levels. If you were to only play low levels then switching would be irrelevant given that restriction. It's hard to call it better for a Game of Thrones campaign with more spell slots in play. I find banning classes or spells, applying a longer rest cycle and healing cycle, and using lingering injuries options to be closer to Game of Thrones than 2e. [URL='https://darksun5e-1.obsidianportal.com/']Darksun 5e[/URL] [URL='https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LBaY4l6HcR4M-sItfl_']Spelljammer 5e[/URL] Both already have homebrew conversions to 5e, like those 2 examples. Google it and you'll find more. ;-) It could be an unmodified STR check too, to be in line with 2e's version, and 5e's "other uses for strength checks" and "interacting with objects" in the PHB. Both editions already cover it that way, although 2e's way is a bit awkard. Use athletics if you think it applies. I don't because bending bars doesn't have technical aspect in which to train afaik but that's entirely a DM call. That's an argument of presumption, lol. I think the DMG options and restricting options does what you want far easier than modifying 2e. If you want to play 2e, there's really no reason to tell us about (looks like baiting whether it's meant to or not). I know people who pull out old editions and play them and don't hold an edition preference that doesn't match mine against anyone. Trev Deeley Motorcycles (in Vancouver BC Canada) has a quote on the wall that says, "It doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride." I think that saying applies to D&D as well. It doesn't matter which edition you play as long as you are having fun doing it. [/QUOTE]
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