Action-less combat

[LostSoul]

I was thinking that you'd get a free move action at all times. This would inspire swashbuckling combats.

If you wanted to move x2, you'd suffer "the penalty" to all rolls. (Whatever that penalty might be; I like -5, because that's what is suggested in the BAB progressions.)

If you wanted to move x3, you'd suffer "the penalty" twice (for taking two extra move actions).

Doing a jump = a move. So your first jump should be free. Doing a climb = a move. So your first climb should be free. But if you climb up a wall, then jump off a ledge to another ledge (while throwing daggers in mid-air), you're going to take penalties.

 

[WSmith]

Interseting, Lost Soul. Last might I started thinking about something similar myself. In the older editions, you could move half your rate and still attack. With the decreased movement rate, maybe characters should still get a single attack, (TWF is considered a single attack for action penalties provided you have the feat, but still suffer the two weapon weilding penalties.)

I used -4 cause originally I was using -2, and it was almost useless. What do you mean byt the BAB progression? Do you mean that at +6 you get another attack? If that is the case then the -5 certainly makes more sense.

Humm, I don't know. I can see moving and getting a free melee attack. But, what about moving and firing a ranged weapon, or casting a spell, or one of the misc actions like drinking a potion, drawing a sword, or lighting a torch? Maybe:

Ranged wpn.: -5 to the attack roll

Casting: Concentration check -5 or cannot do (DC vs. ?)

Misc action: Concentration check -5 or cannot do (DC vs. ?)

Use a skill: like Search, Use Rope, Diplomacy, Escape artist, etc. -5 to the skill check.

Any comments or other ideas folks?

 

[LostSoul]

What do you mean byt the BAB progression? Do you mean that at +6 you get another attack? If that is the case then the -5 certainly makes more sense.

When you hit +6 BAB, then you're suddenly good enough (or quick enough, or whatever) to make that next attack at -5. That's what I was basing things on.

I guess I just like giving characters the ability to "give it a shot", even if you don't have a hope in hell of succeeding. There's always the hope of a fluke. (Although you don't want to encourage somebody to take an infinite number of actions, hoping that one will succed. That's just dumb.)

Humm, I don't know. I can see moving and getting a free melee attack. But, what about moving and firing a ranged weapon, or casting a spell, or one of the misc actions like drinking a potion, drawing a sword, or lighting a torch? Maybe:

Ranged wpn.: -5 to the attack roll

Casting: Concentration check -5 or cannot do (DC vs. ?)

Misc action: Concentration check -5 or cannot do (DC vs. ?)

Use a skill: like Search, Use Rope, Diplomacy, Escape artist, etc. -5 to the skill check.

Any comments or other ideas folks?

This is what I was thinking about. Spells cause the most problems; should you be able to cast more than one spell? If you do, what would the DC of the Concentration check be? Would it be totally unbalancing, and do I even care if it is? I guess you don't want some high level mage blasting out five magic missiles or anything...

For misc actions (like drinking a potion or drawing a sword): At first I didn't think it should take a roll, it would just cause penalties on everything else you're doing; but some guy might drink three potions and use a wand, or something. Maybe a Ref save vs. DC 10 or 15 would be the best solution.

I'm thinking that changing the entire "action system" wouldn't be good as a "simple tweak" to a D&D game (that is, the only change you make to the rules); but it might work out well for other d20 games. Such as modern, horror, or sci-fi games.

 

[WSmith]

When you hit +6 BAB, then you're suddenly good enough (or quick enough, or whatever) to make that next attack at -5. That's what I was basing things on.

Got it. I agree that the -5 makes the most sense now.

I guess I just like giving characters the ability to "give it a shot", even if you don't have a hope in hell of succeeding. There's always the hope of a fluke. (Although you don't want to encourage somebody to take an infinite number of actions, hoping that one will succed. That's just dumb.)

I agree. That is why if they fail the first "action thing" that has a -5 penalty, they don't continue. However that might cramp the style you are trying to achive.

This is what I was thinking about. Spells cause the most problems; should you be able to cast more than one spell? If you do, what would the DC of the Concentration check be? Would it be totally unbalancing, and do I even care if it is? I guess you don't want some high level mage blasting out five magic missiles or anything...

Spells do cause the most "thought" to make this work. I think one spell is enough in a round, but a second one with a concentration check with a DC of 15 for distracting things like failure or being entangled, or 15+spell level similar to casting on the defensive, with a -5 to the roll might balance it out. Remember an additional attempt would increase the penalty to -10, almost sure failure except for really high level casters, and then a -15 after that. Of course failure at any point after his first means his turn is over.

For misc actions (like drinking a potion or drawing a sword): At first I didn't think it should take a roll, it would just cause penalties on everything else you're doing; but some guy might drink three potions and use a wand, or something. Maybe a Ref save vs. DC 10 or 15 would be the best solution.

There are two reasons why the check should be made. First keeping track of misc actions to apply to a roll later is slightly cumbersome. It avoids the need to declare in the begining what you are going to do. For example in the original example Lost Soul posted, there would be an penalty applied to each action that round. In order to apply the proper penalty, you must know how many actions the character will be taking that round. Then what if some of his efforts fail and he wants to try something else, you are back to saying "you can't do that" cause the a penalty has already been applied to the previous actions he has taken.

I'm thinking that changing the entire "action system" wouldn't be good as a "simple tweak" to a D&D game (that is, the only change you make to the rules); but it might work out well for other d20 games. Such as modern, horror, or sci-fi games.

I am pretty much building a d20 Basic fantasy game from the ground up, so it works really well for my purposes. From the testing I did, full round actions, extra partial actions, move-equiv. actions that aren't really move equiv. actions, 5 foot steps, the whole moving with regard to AoO, is tossed out the window.

 

[LostSoul]

I am pretty much building a d20 Basic fantasy game from the ground up, so it works really well for my purposes. From the testing I did, full round actions, extra partial actions, move-equiv. actions that aren't really move equiv. actions, 5 foot steps, the whole moving with regard to AoO, is tossed out the window.

That sounds really cool! I'd like to see it when you're ready. I'm messing around with something on my own, but who knows if I'll ever get a chance to actually use it or not... my players can be pretty anal retentive sometimes.