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4e Essentials as a new edition and 4e's longevity
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9280790" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>This probably already got discussed, but there are some odd points in this OP...</p><p></p><p>First major point is that Essentials was a deliberately limited product. WotC announced it as 10 SKUs and stated flat out that there would NEVER be any additional Essentials products! So NOTHING post-Essentials is, technically at least, Essentials, and it is very clear that Essentials was NOT a 'replacement product', it was a line of supplementary 4e products intended to provide a limited subset of 4e which could be played stand-alone, but is 100% compatible with existing 4e material.</p><p></p><p>Obviously later supplements had to be developed with Essentials in mind as a thing that existed which many people would likely have. That complicated a lot of the development. My guess is that WotC also had a bunch of material that was developed in the process of writing Essentials which didn't make the cut, but which was potentially interesting and needed a home. Finally there are lot of things that Essentials opens up, like potentially more types of Cleric along the lines of the Warpriest, but which are not present in its limited set of books.</p><p></p><p>In the end, post-Essentials material is about 75% ignoring Essentials. Heroes of Shadow is probably the MOST influenced, it has several subclasses which are only useful with Essentials as well as a couple that can stand-alone but are presented in a fairly Essentials-like fashion. HotFW indeed pretty much ignores Essentials, I don't think anything in it references any of the HotFL/FK stuff at all. HotEC is still mostly written in terms of pre-Essentials stuff, except for the Druid subclasses and the hexblade elemental pact.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I think the post-Essentials material is mostly quite solid. Many people have dissed a bunch of it, but both the stuff which references Essentials and the 'classic 4e' stuff is mostly GOOD. Binder is basically the worst thing post-E, and it is not actually terrible, just kind of unneeded and a bit on the weaker side of class builds. Vampires, the Blackguards, all the stuff in HotFW, it is all really solid. Some people weren't satisfied with the Necromancer, whatever. I mean, we all have our ideas of what things should be, but what it is works fine and makes sense. The HotEC stuff is quite good, all of it! Some things in these books are a bit experimental, maybe not really needed that much, like the Berserker or the Skald, but they work fine! I also disagree that the Vampire is an underpowered class. In fact, played and built correctly it is almost stupid overpowered! </p><p></p><p>And I think that really addresses the whole 'Essentials is an Edition' thing thoroughly. No, it is not. It is an expansion, much like the various 'Power' series books, just presented a bit differently and including a revised subset of the core rules. It has new builds of many existing classes, etc. but frankly you could just buy Heroes of the Fallen Lands and build characters using that and play them just like builds from any Power supplement or PHB. It is hard to call that a 'new edition', even if the classes and such are presented in a MILDLY different format from what was used in the hardback classic 4e books pre-Essentials. I mean, I can use any existing Paragon Path or ED with an Essentials class, even though they're bundled with a 'default PP/ED' and use any existing powers as well except where Essentials locks down my choices.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9280790, member: 82106"] This probably already got discussed, but there are some odd points in this OP... First major point is that Essentials was a deliberately limited product. WotC announced it as 10 SKUs and stated flat out that there would NEVER be any additional Essentials products! So NOTHING post-Essentials is, technically at least, Essentials, and it is very clear that Essentials was NOT a 'replacement product', it was a line of supplementary 4e products intended to provide a limited subset of 4e which could be played stand-alone, but is 100% compatible with existing 4e material. Obviously later supplements had to be developed with Essentials in mind as a thing that existed which many people would likely have. That complicated a lot of the development. My guess is that WotC also had a bunch of material that was developed in the process of writing Essentials which didn't make the cut, but which was potentially interesting and needed a home. Finally there are lot of things that Essentials opens up, like potentially more types of Cleric along the lines of the Warpriest, but which are not present in its limited set of books. In the end, post-Essentials material is about 75% ignoring Essentials. Heroes of Shadow is probably the MOST influenced, it has several subclasses which are only useful with Essentials as well as a couple that can stand-alone but are presented in a fairly Essentials-like fashion. HotFW indeed pretty much ignores Essentials, I don't think anything in it references any of the HotFL/FK stuff at all. HotEC is still mostly written in terms of pre-Essentials stuff, except for the Druid subclasses and the hexblade elemental pact. Honestly, I think the post-Essentials material is mostly quite solid. Many people have dissed a bunch of it, but both the stuff which references Essentials and the 'classic 4e' stuff is mostly GOOD. Binder is basically the worst thing post-E, and it is not actually terrible, just kind of unneeded and a bit on the weaker side of class builds. Vampires, the Blackguards, all the stuff in HotFW, it is all really solid. Some people weren't satisfied with the Necromancer, whatever. I mean, we all have our ideas of what things should be, but what it is works fine and makes sense. The HotEC stuff is quite good, all of it! Some things in these books are a bit experimental, maybe not really needed that much, like the Berserker or the Skald, but they work fine! I also disagree that the Vampire is an underpowered class. In fact, played and built correctly it is almost stupid overpowered! And I think that really addresses the whole 'Essentials is an Edition' thing thoroughly. No, it is not. It is an expansion, much like the various 'Power' series books, just presented a bit differently and including a revised subset of the core rules. It has new builds of many existing classes, etc. but frankly you could just buy Heroes of the Fallen Lands and build characters using that and play them just like builds from any Power supplement or PHB. It is hard to call that a 'new edition', even if the classes and such are presented in a MILDLY different format from what was used in the hardback classic 4e books pre-Essentials. I mean, I can use any existing Paragon Path or ED with an Essentials class, even though they're bundled with a 'default PP/ED' and use any existing powers as well except where Essentials locks down my choices. [/QUOTE]
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