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the highest level characters i've ever had was level 13 in 5e, but the campaign started at level 3 and i joined at level 4, so i guess that doesn't count. the next highest level character i have is level 9 also in 5e, and normally that wouldn't count since that game also started at level 3, but...

it's alright, misunderstandings happen

hey, dude. hey. hey guess what. guess what dude. being involved in that stuff is LITERALLY WHAT I MEAN BY INTEGRATION. i don't mean "oooo everyone needs to be part of the little community oooo" what i mean is "hey if you're from a core species you should have some grounding in the setting...

oh wow. where's that in the adventure?

...uh...tell that to @Hussar, i guess?

...that's not...what? i mean you can definitely play an adventurer who isn't well integrated in society but that's...that's not the DEFINITION. nobody's saying you do? @Hussar was thinking about a hypothetical new setting designed specifically to leverage 5.5e. you can have something be rare...

well, they are core player options, so if you were gonna make a 2024 setting it'd definitely make sense to make sure they were well integrated into it (as opposed to kind of just being an addon). that doesn't necessarily need to be making them super common though

sounds like a world building issue to me that might be true for adventurers...but how much would crafting npcs care about that? even if the answer is "a lot"--well. we'll come back to that. once every 2d4 days, you mean. recovering constitution is quite the advantage i'd wager... but even if...

lots of wizards got to levels where they could cast 9th level spells? that's...a claim. hey, uh...you know xp is FAR more common then wish, right? uh...no. a magical crafting system that requires you to be powerful enough to cast wish to reliably use it is not a functional basis for a...

yeah, JUST use the apex of mortal magic to undo it. that's a widespread enough commodity to support a setting with. can we just agree that tsr era crafting has a much steeper cost then 3e crafting? not if you actually look at those rules, it seems. so if we're trying to determine whether or...

"Hey, it's fine, guys, there's only a CHANCE I develop permanent weakness from making this magic item, instead of it being guaranteed!" that's...not a lot better? unless it's like astronomical odds, in which case...why bother mentioning it at all? yeah, but that's pretty much entirely divorced...

that...still achieves the result of characters capable of making magic items being extremely limited. ah, yes, like permanency, which...is an 8th level spell. that reduces your constitution by 1 per use. yeah. very conducive to an industrialized magic society there. right. becmi's item...

don't becmi through 2e generally assume that the knowledge to make most magic items have been broadly lost, which is why they have to be found by adventurers? even if not (or even if later editions assume the same), that still negates nothing - it'd just mean other editions have toyed with the...

for one, that assumes magic item creation produced the same results in every edition. for another, that assumes interpreting the same results in a different way means you're not interpreting the results at all. the latter is obviously false on its face. the former, from everything i've heard...

that...doesn't negate the point at all.

wasn't the setting literally built (in part) from what keith and the other writers thought was a logical extension of the magic and crafting rules of 3e?

....think you put on the wrong cover image...but maybe finish your break first, you earned it

...i mean considering what character he played in dispatch...

nobody said the kingdom was good aligned. also i don't really have a problem with evil orcs so it's really funny that you used that as an example towards me specifically