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Worlds of Design: The Problem with Magimarts

I dislike magic item stores ("magimarts") in my games. Here's why.

I dislike magic item stores. Here's why.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

Magic items are a part of every fantasy role-playing game, and wherever player characters meet, someone will want to buy or sell such items. What the players do among themselves is their business, in most cases; but when non-player characters (NPC) are involved the GM must know where magic items come from, how rare they are, and how hard it is to produce them. [Quoting myself from 40+ years ago]

Magimart: Still a Bad Idea​

I don't like the idea of "Magimarts" -- something like a bookstore or small department store, often with a public storefront, where adventurers can come and purchase (or sell) magic items. I said as much over 40 years ago in an article titled “Magimart: Buying and Selling Magic Items” in White Dwarf magazine. My point then still stands: at least for me and in my games, magic-selling stores don’t make sense.

They don’t make sense from a design point of view, as they may unbalance a campaign or cause power-creep. From an adventure point of view such stores partly eliminates the need to quest for specific powerful magic items. From a realistic point of view they would only provide targets for those who are happy to steal.

The Design Point of View​

From a game design point of view, how experience points, gold, and magic fit together makes a big difference. For example, if you get experience points for selling a magic item (even to NPCs), as well as for the gold you get, adventurers will sell magic items more often. If adventurers acquire scads of treasure and have nothing (such as taxes or “training”) to significantly reduce their fortunes, then big-time magic items are going to cost an awful lot of money, but some will be bought. If gold is in short supply (as you’d expect in anything approaching a real world) then anyone with a whole lot of gold might be able to buy big-time magic items.

Long campaigns need a way for magic items to change ownership, other than theft. As an RPG player I like to trade magic items to other characters in return for other magic items. But there are no “magic stores.” Usability is a big part of it: if my magic user has a magic sword that a fighter wants, he might trade me an item that I could use as a magic user. (Some campaigns allocate found magic items only to characters who can use them. We just dice for selecting the things (a sort of draft) and let trading sort it out, much simpler and less likely to lead to argument about who can use/who needs what.)

The Adventure Point of Views​

Will magic stores promote enjoyable adventuring? It depends on the style of play, but for players primarily interested in challenging adventures, they may not want to be able to go into a somehow-invulnerable magic store and buy or trade for what they want.

Magic-selling stores remind me of the question “why do dungeons exist”. A common excuse (not reason) is “some mad (and very powerful) wizard made it.” Yeah, sure. Excuses for magic-selling stores need to be even wilder than that!

I think of magic-item trading and selling amongst characters as a kind of secretive black market. Yes, it may happen, but each transaction is fraught with opportunities for deceit. Perhaps like a black market for stolen diamonds? This is not something you’re likely to do out in the open, nor on a regular mass basis.

The Realistic Point of View​

“Why do you rob banks?” the thief is asked. “’Cause that’s where the money is.”
Realistically, what do you think will happen if someone maintains a location containing magic items on a regular basis? Magimarts are a major flashpoint in the the dichotomy between believability (given initial assumptions of magic and spell-casting) and "Rule of Cool" ("if it's cool, it's OK").

In most campaigns, magic items will be quite rare. Or magic items that do commonplace things (such as a magic self-heating cast iron pan) may be common but the items that are useful in conflict will be rare. After all, if combat-useful magic items are commonplace, why would anyone take the risk of going into a “dungeon” full of dangers to find some? (Would dungeon-delving become purely a non-magical treasure-hunting activity if magic items are commonplace?)

And for the villains, magimarts seem like an easy score. If someone is kind enough to gather a lot of magic items in a convenient, known place, why not steal those rather than go to a lot of time and effort, risk and chance, to explore dungeons and ruins for items? There may be lots of money there as well!

When Magimarts Make Sense​

If your campaign is one where magic is very common, then magic shops may make sense - though only for common stuff, not for rare/powerful items. And magic-selling stores can provide reasons for adventures:
  • Find the kidnapped proprietor who is the only one who can access all that magic.
  • Be the guards for a magic store.
  • Chase down the crooks who stole some or all of the magic from the store.
Maybe a clever proprietor has figured out a way to make the items accessible only to him or her. But some spells let a caster take over the mind of the victim, and can use the victim to access the items. And if someone is so powerful that he or she can protect a magic store against those who want to raid it, won't they likely have better/more interesting things to do with their time? (As an aside, my wife points out that a powerful character might gather a collection of magic items in the same way that a rich person might gather a collection of artworks. But these won’t be available to “the public” in most cases. Still just as some people rob art museums, some might rob magic collections.)

Of course, any kind of magic trading offers lots of opportunities for deception. You might find out that the sword you bought has a curse, or that the potion isn’t what it’s supposed to be. Many GMs ignore this kind of opportunity and let players buy and sell items at standard prices without possibility of being bilked. Fair enough, it’s not part of the core adventure/story purposes of RPGs. And magic stores are a cheap way for a GM to allow trade in magic items.

Your Turn: What part do magic-selling stores play in your games?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
It's so weird that people think +1 swords wouldn't be for sale when I'm within walking distance of at least two shops where I can purchase a wand that turns lead into corpses for the cost of a day's work.
But the sale of these wands is highly regulated, right?

Since only adventurers would have need of such items, there must be very little demand for them.
 

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Those guns are cheap and widely available thanks to industrial mass production. Meanwhile, traditionally most D&D settings try to paint their pseudo-medieval world as one where magic items and enchantments only exist as artisanally crafted unique works. Eberron is the only one where proto-industrial production of low level magic items on a mass scale is a current event, as opposed to a long vanished ancient high magic civilization.
Pre-mass production guns were still sold but were affordable to the relatively smaller clientèle that could afford them.

Which makes sense that you would have magic shops pre-mass production.
 

Mallus

Legend
I think magimarts have their place when using 3.5e or Pathfinder, which are really hybrid point buy/class systems. The ability to spend a currency to 'purchase' additional abilities and combine them is a large part of their appeal.
 

Starfox

Hero
I think magimarts have their place when using 3.5e or Pathfinder, which are really hybrid point buy/class systems. The ability to spend a currency to 'purchase' additional abilities and combine them is a large part of their appeal.
This is true. It is also one of the problems with 3.5. :)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Decks of Many Things and Augury abuse.

I'm kidding, but you're overlooking that NPC's don't earn xp the same way PC's do. An 11th level Wizard is 11th level because the DM decided he needs to be, he didn't have to go adventuring and slay monsters to get there.

The same holds true for that 5th level Expert Weaponsmith the party buys their masterwork swords from. The xp cost for magic items is a (not well thought out) limitation for PC's.

I'm not saying you can't run your game with NPC's having to worry about xp, but in the PHB you can buy spellcasting services for spells with xp costs from NPC's, it just costs more money to do so (5 gp per xp required in the cost), which wouldn't happen if NPC's actually had to worry about losing levels.
Nah. This was 3e where every wizard was the PC class and therefore had the PC limitations. NPC wizards needed the item creation feats and had to pay the cost. That 11th level wizard might have slowly over several decades gotten to 11th level by study and practice where the PC wizard gets there in 3 months due to fighting, but that only makes it less likely for the NPC wizard to spend the XP on items, not more likely. If it's going to take him 100x longer to get it back than the PC, it holds much more value. The fact that you have to pay more for the xp loss for the NPC wizards shows that they do lose it and the level if they drop below the number to be the level they were at. If they didn't, there wouldn't be any increase in cost.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
But I can attest that such a thing is a concern. In a Dragonlance game, I made a Minotaur Wizard (because apparently that's a thing in Taladas) for the novelty...and then ended up at level 1 with a 19 Strength, so that everything died in one hit from my staff! I went through an entire adventure with only casting Mage Armor. The guy playing the Fighter was pretty annoyed about it...and I think the DM was too, because we never played those characters again!

Even 5e retains some of this, with items that require certain traits in order to attune to them, though I'm leery about that one- if you find an item nobody in your party can use, what then?
Good grief! Imagine that wizard with a bunch of darts. Three per round at 1d4+7 per dart that hits!
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Sure, I mean, published adventures are almost always stocked with items, and after recently using the DMG encounter creation rules, even 5e has fairly common magic items found in lairs by default (just the other day, I rolled a Ring of Free Action in a Tier 1 hoard and I was like, "oh heck no!" and switched it out, then immediately ended up with another hoard that had, I kid you not (saved for posterity):

2000 cp, 1000 sp, 70 gp
6 x 25 gp art objects (Carved bone statuette, Pair of engraved bone dice, Black velvet mask stitched with silver thread, Small gold bracelet, Black velvet mask stitched with silver thread, Carved bone statuette)

4 magic items from Table F :
Ring of jumping
Winged boots
Javelin of lightning
Adamantine armor (chain mail)

I'm debating on keeping though, since the only real sticking point is the boots, and they're more limited than a Broom of Flying would be, so maybe it'll be ok...
It has always bugged the hell out of me that you find coins in even amounts like that. What I do is that the last bit is rolled randomly, so if I got 70, what I would do is roll 1d10 for the last bit and end up with 61-70 gp With that copper I'd roll a d100 and end up with 901-1000 sp. Using the above numbers I ended up with 66 gp and 986 sp.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Fair enough. My belief is that anyone selling magical items would likely rely on their own countermeasures before calling the guard. As well, it seems likely that most thieves would think twice before robbing someone who is known to be able to create magical items.
I can't tell from your response if you are agreeing with @RainOnTheSun or just missed this, so I'm going to point out that he said the same thing in the post you quoted just in case it was missed. :)

"If the people with all the magic items get attacked, they're already more dangerous than anyone else they could call. It's a very different power dynamic than you have buying mundane goods from somebody."
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sure, but the rest of the group is hearing rumors and learning stuff that is likely time sensitive. If they don't jump on it, someone else will get there first. It's amazing how quickly the rest of the group decides that they really would rather go do things, and then the player of the wizard inevitably joins them. At least in the groups I've been a part of.
Downtime makes much more game-sense when characters didn't heal from all negative effects overnight. It always made realism-sense.
 

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