Unpopular opinions go here

Micah Sweet · Sep 18, 2023

Snarf Zagyg said:
I think you mean ... the success of 5e compared to any other TTRPG published, ever.

That's the correct comparison.

Sure, it's not as successful as other incredibly successful forms of entertainment. You could add, for example, that D&D has yet to surpass the revenue of the NFL if you wanted. But that's not really the proper comparator, is it? Doing the best of any game in its field, in history, is probably sufficient to call it not just impressive, but an unparalleled success. Not to mention that 5e's peak has far surpassed the very limited boom years of the 80s fad, which only lasted from '80-'83.

Nevertheless, I feel very strongly that they have sacrificed creativity and artistic expression on the altar of cash. I would rather they made a creative, artistic game that I didn't like than the next to nothing "update" coming next year.

Snarf Zagyg · Sep 18, 2023

Micah Sweet said:
That's my point. It's very hard to look at D&D from the perspective of "What are designing it to do?" when they keep twisting it slightly over and over as time goes on to appeal to a bigger and bigger audience, with the upshot being that every part of that audience is being less served than they would if it were designed with that part's favored experience in mind. Some are getting more of what they want, others are getting less. Hence my claim that all they really want to do is make more money.

As much as I came to dislike 4e personally, at least it had an honest creative goal.

That makes no sense.

If anything, it is much harder to design something that is broadly appealing that it is to design for a niche audience. Because you have a lot more interests to accommodate and design for.

I understand that you don't like 5e, but ... you are in the minority. And that's okay. Every game can't be everything to every person. But designing a game that is so broadly popular presents unique design challenges. Simply saying, "Whatever. Cash rules everything around me, CREAM get the money, dolla dolla bill y'all!" might be satisfying to you, but it abdicates any critical thinking about what they are actually doing to make the game popular.

Aldarc · Sep 18, 2023

payn said:
If you don't personally like something, that doesn't mean there is some agenda obsessed cabal working towards popularizing it at your expense.

That's what a secret member of the TTRPG Illuminati would say!

Micah Sweet · Sep 18, 2023

payn said:
If you don't personally like something, that doesn't mean there is some agenda obsessed cabal working towards popularizing it at your expense.

I don't know who you're responding to, but I never said it was personal on their end. That would be ridiculous.

payn · Sep 18, 2023

Aldarc said:
That's what a secret member of the TTRPG Illuminati would say!

I wish I had a fraction of the power grogs are assumed to have by the internet.

Micah Sweet · Sep 18, 2023

Snarf Zagyg said:
That makes no sense.

If anything, it is much harder to design something that is broadly appealing that it is to design for a niche audience. Because you have a lot more interests to accommodate and design for.

I understand that you don't like 5e, but ... you are in the minority. And that's okay. Every game can't be everything to every person. But designing a game that is so broadly popular presents unique design challenges. Simply saying, "Whatever. Cash rules everything around me, CREAM get the money, dolla dolla bill y'all!" might be satisfying to you, but it abdicates any critical thinking about what they are actually doing to make the game popular.

Ok. What exactly are they doing, creatively to make the game more popular?

And for the umpteenth time, I do like 5e. I don't like WotC, or their version of 5e as it's been expressed in the last few years (Tasha's forward, basically). There is a difference, no matter how much people seem to ignore it.

Faolyn · Sep 18, 2023

MGibster said:
At the risk of being a jerk, I have to admit that was just a joke on my part. I typically don't have a difficult time connecting with other people.

Ah, sorry.

Aldarc · Sep 18, 2023

Tony Vargas said:
All RPGs aren't D&D.
There are (or at least were) RPGs that really could be used to run any genre or setting well, or at least faithfully, if you had the time/mastery to build up campaign material yourself (Hero) or they'd put out a supplement for exactly that genre or setting (GURPS).

(But seriously, D&D is not a pig.)

(You can't make bacon out of it.)

I'm not saying that all RPGs are D&D. I'm saying that the claim that "a system can do X genre/setting" is a pretty low bar, as it's mostly about aesthetics at a fairly superficial level (i.e., lipstick on the pig). Your claim here sounds like more of the same "these pigs here can wear any shade of lipstick" to me.

Gradine · Sep 18, 2023

Tasha's was one of the things that kept me sticking with 5e as long as I have. I'm just tired of it, at this point.

In other news:

overgeeked · Sep 18, 2023

Unpopular opinions.

1. It's okay to like unpopular things. It's okay to dislike popular things.

2. The designers of 5E largely stumbled into an exceptionally popular edition of the game. We have every indication this was going to be the mothball edition. Finish it and let the brand coast with minimal staff and minimal releases. They were as surprised as everyone else that 5E took off like it did. A whole heap of 5E's popularity has nothing to do with its design. D&D is having another pop culture moment. They did not intentionally design a massively popular game.

3. No one's perfect. Expecting them to be is a mistake. If people would give others even half of the benefit of the doubt they expect for themselves, the world would be a far better place.

Unpopular opinions go here

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist

Aldarc

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

Faolyn

(she/her)

Aldarc

Legend

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)

overgeeked

B/X Known World

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