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D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey: Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point. Barbarian scored well...

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

  • Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
  • Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
  • Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
  • Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
  • Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
  • Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
  • Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.


 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Because you're readying your weapon to attack. I don't know of anything calling that out as a free action, do you?

You did. You actively used it to cast a spell.

Sure, you can hold a weapon with it - which will take some kind of interaction to ready a weapon with it. You can do this for free one time during your move or action...but this is not your move, nor is it your action. You cannot grab your weapon and make a reaction attack when it's not your turn.

Or a weapon in two hands.
The unbelievably awful RAW is still RAW. The meals tweet is simply confirming that it is also RAI.
None of that is in the rules or rulings that I am aware of. If your hand is free, then it's not on your weapon wielding it two handed. You cannot then wield it two handed and attack with it as a reaction.

It is a fact that many players who use a melee weapon and also cast some spells choose a versatile weapon for this very reason. When they're not casting a spell they wield it two-handed for extra damage, but when they are casting a spell they're holding it with just one hand and make an opportunity attack with it (one handed) if that comes up.
Its literally RAW and RAI. The reason I took the time to link to quote and link all of the relevant rules sections in the web basic rules is because the rules themselves are such an unbelievable waste of ink and bits used to do nothing but setup a trap for the GM. That remains the case until the rules glossary in a future packet or the 2024 version does something to change the RAI by fixing the People haven't blasted wotc for ignoring the GM so far in the packets without reason.
 

Mostly what people hate is the wizard’s outsized impact on the design of the game as a whole. This UA is a perfect example; we’ve had 6 packets of unified spell lists, and now, because the Wizard only got a passing score instead of a glowing one, they’re reversing course on that design choice. Whether you think the unified spell lists were a good design direction or a bad one, you should be able to recognize that its removal will have a huge impact on every single casting class, especially the bard. One doesn’t have to hate the wizard to recognize that a huge amount of the game’s design literally revolves around that one class, and maybe that’s not the healthiest thing for the game.
Yep this. I hated standardised lists, and am glad that class lists are returning.

But going back to class lists just because the wizard players complained (they didn't care when it was any other class) is not the right reason to be reverting that change.

Every single good reason to revert to class lists got completely ignored, only to instantly change course when the golden child got upset that their spell list wasn't the best anymore.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Yep this. I hated standardised lists, and am glad that class lists are returning.

But going back to class lists just because the wizard players complained (they didn't care when it was any other class) is not the right reason to be reverting that change.

Every single good reason to revert to class lists got completely ignored, only to instantly change course when the golden child got upset that their spell list wasn't the best anymore.
There are legitimate good reasons to have unified lists. There are plenty of good reasons why dumping almost every spell in the game on those lists while some classes still have or lack additional class features because they are (not) assumed to have part of it almost all of thelusts themselves. They could still do cut down unified lists working alongside class specific ones but if that was a thing they were willing to do it would have been from the start rather than the half-ass "maybe the community will do it for us" spell dump we got. It will probably go back to something very similar (or identical)to the 2014 lists after wasting everyone's time "testing" things that could have been detected with a bit less "my guy is happy with this" & more "is this ok for all classes and the gm?" During the internal testing... Wizard just made it too clear to not finally override the folks only focused on "my guy"
 

DevL

Explorer
Because you're readying your weapon to attack. I don't know of anything calling that out as a free action, do you?
Except for multi-attack archers that apparently can pull multiple arrows from their quiver and nock them, thus readying their weapon - for free - each turn. D&D RAW is an incoherent mess and has always been. 😂
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Except for multi-attack archers that apparently can pull multiple arrows from their quiver and nock them, thus readying their weapon - for free - each turn. D&D RAW is an incoherent mess and has always been. 😂
I the case of somatic components and focus items though the RAW is deliberately very clear and explicit about it with only a smokescreen of implied hurdles painted just thick enough on the track to do nothing but shield it from getting fixed with an errata. We know that it was deliberate because it was confirmed to also be RAI, the RAI doesn't change until something is done about RAW.
 

Horwath

Legend
I the case of somatic components and focus items though the RAW is deliberately very clear and explicit about it with only a smokescreen of implied hurdles painted just thick enough on the track to do nothing but shield it from getting fixed with an errata. We know that it was deliberate because it was confirmed to also be RAI, the RAI doesn't change until something is done about RAW.
Do people still care about Somatic components and weapons/shield?

1691747259376.png


Look, casting a spell with a shield and a 1H weapon.
Just grab your 1Hander with the shield hand for a moment and cast a spell.
 

Ashrym

Legend
I think there was something in the "pick your spell list" - but to me it took away the bardery part.
That "something" was fun. I hope most classes gain their spell lists back and bards still pick a list, tbh. I liked it. Do the same for sorcerers. That was a meaningful choice that established a lot of flavor in the the style. Adding those options adds more bard tropes. It's only an issue if a person wants to deny others those tropes in favor of their own perception of the class.
No, Flex is both. Without Flex, a Longsword has two use cases that a character needs to choose one or the other:

One handed with a shield: 1d8 + 2 AC
Two handed withoutna shield: 1d10 + 0 AC

With Flex, they get to have their cake and eat it, too:

Single handed with a shield: 1d10 + 2 AC

Flex allows both the higher damage die and the higher AC. Mix with a sword and board fighting style...
Characters using a two-handed weapon are typically already gaining a larger damage die and players using a shield are already gaining that AC bonus. Characters who cannot use a shield or the standard two-handed weapons don't need flex because they can use the versatile trait instead. I wouldn't count it as both bonuses either. I do think it's useful, however, for a shield style build for the extra damage.
Or maybe instead of their own spell list, they can pick from the cleric, druid, and Sorcerer Spell lists.
Or warlock. Or psionic if it gets added.
I don't get the Wizard hate. I am starting to believe it is a holdover grudge from back in the day because they used to be broken. They aren't today. Not compared to the other full caster classes like the Sorcerer who not only get full spellcasting, but relevant class abilities that are impactful in combat.

The thing is that Wizards don't really get Class abilities. If they are boring it is because they really only get spells. Compared to a Sorcerer's Metamagic, what do they get? The Savant ability? There aren't enough spells in each school to matter, and some schools don't even exist at certain spell levels. Arcane Recovery? That compares to Font of Magic. Other than those, Wizard abilities are all delegated to the Subclass and so many of those Subclass abililites are little more than ribbons/flavor. The vast majority of level 2 Wizard subclass abilities are BORING. People choose Evocation and Divination because they actually have abilities that work decently in combat for levels 2 through 5. And the Sorcerer gets the Evocation school's primary ability as a metamagic option. Most other Wizard subclasses bring nothing to the table. Illusion, Transmutation, and Conjuration? Worthless in a fight. Abjuration, Enchantment, and Necromancy? Barely better. Compare any of those to the Sorcerer's Draconic Resilience? Not a contest.

Wizards' power is about their broad customizability with arcane magic. They are the only ones that really care about Spell Schools, and they need diverse options in those spell schools. Because that is almost ALL they have.

Wizards deserve to have the largest spell list because it is inherently necessary for their School focus to matter, and they get little else. They deserve to be the Arcane Toolbox class because they are the scientists and scholars of magic.
Wizards have the largest spell list in the UA because sorcerers, bards, and warlocks cannot swap spells on a rest and end up with access to only selected spells on level up. Plus the ritual caster traits that favor wizards. Plus the ability to modify and create spells that would be exclusive to the wizard. It's the subclasses that needed a bit more. The class had plenty going for it.
I don't think it's because the wizard only got a passing score so much as they realized they gave too much of the wizard to sorcerer warlock & bard but don't want to admit it or give something else to fill the wizard's dead levels formerly covered by a larger spell list.
Access to the spell list isn't a dead level. Sorcerers, warlocks, and bards cannot access the full wizard list. Only the spells known, which is less than the spellbook menchanics.
Now if they give away a little more, we won't need the wizard at all anymore!
Why does the wizard need to be needed if no other class does? The wizard isn't needed. The wizard has some clear advantages in the existing spellcasting mechanic and still had those in the UA with better spell access via rest mechanic, better ritual mechanics, and the exclusive spell creation.
There is never a reason to drop your shield and 2-hand your versatile weapon. If you're not in danger, you will just attack as normal. If you are in danger, you're not going to drop your shield to get 1 die step up.
Versatile helps characters who don't use a shield and cannot use more damaging weapons. Like a monk or possibly a bard.
Versatile weapons desperately need to provide options worth giving up AC for a turn for.
A character isn't give up AC if they don't have or cannot use a shield.
No I don't think it's that simple. How often have we seen wotc folks describe sorcerer as "wizard but hot"? You never see wizard described as "sorcerer but X". Look at the previous packet5 video & discount the bit about epic boons/feats. In it Crawford spends almost the entire thing talking about the warlock & sorcerer going at length how important it was that they hit the mark on the themes & feel during play on those two. Wizard is almost an afterthought. It's not until the after survey feedback video that they acknowledge the spell list is a huge chunk of the wizard's themes & feel but it's expressed in a way that is somewhat disparaging with an implied sense of entitlement. Even a cursory glance at packet5 wizard with that kind of concern for themes & feel would be immediately apparent that the wizard's themes & feel were given to classes with their own stuff on top of that injection.
The spell modification and spell creation abilities are very thematic to a wizard.
Yes, but all full casters get the new spell levels, which is his point. Compared to, say, a sorcerer, the wizard needs to get something else, or why not just play a sorcerer? Right now, the wizard's access to more spells is arguably overtuned, making them a bit stronger than sorcerers, but if you take that away completely, why would anyone play a wizard? So there has to be something to make them roughly on par.
What's taking that away in the UA? Spells known is alwasy a subset of wizard spells instead of the wizard list.
Not just Wizard toes, as I felt that Bard + Primal made for a far better Ranger...

Bard being a full caster is the problem, if they also get their choice of everything else.
Different argument, but primal bards don't make better rangers. They make something between a ranger and a druid. That's a spellcaster vs martial attacker argument and the bard being the spell caster isn't significant.
But every other full caster class gets the exact same thing, plus more and better class features.
Except they don't. Clerics and druids have a different spell from wizards completely, and spells known restricts bards, sorcerers, and warlocks to the subset of wizard spells that they learned.

In general.......

I think flex is more situational than bad.

I prefer class lists to shared lists but I was seeing the opportunity with the bard selecting a list and choosing spells from within that list. I would push for sorcerers to have the same choice. That ends up with a class focused on metamagic vs a class focused on inspiration and skills. Seems good to me.

There are still a lot of options moving ahead. A good bard spell list works. A basic bard list with a choice of an additional class list works. No bard class list and tagging spells as arcane, divine, or primal can work. Selecting a class list form which to initially choose spells works. One of the key points to the bard is the diverse spell selection and there should be several ways to accomplish that.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Do people still care about Somatic components and weapons/shield?

View attachment 292307

Look, casting a spell with a shield and a 1H weapon.
Just grab your 1Hander with the shield hand for a moment and cast a spell.
Usually people not trying to actively exploit a deliberately awful and pointless bit of the rules will just assume all spells require a focus and free hand or build around a few spells with no somatic components going back to 3.x ime. This is infuriating because the whole thing is written and supported with stuff like warcaster to be nothing but a trap of misleading but meaningless words shielding the trap itself from action of any form.


Edit: this all came up because of a maybe flex would comment someone made earlier
 

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