D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

Hussar · Apr 8, 2023

Bedrockgames said:
That simply isn’t true

Tell that to my children who get called "half" on a daily basis by complete strangers. When people I meet tell me to my face that I have "half" children.

And, as @Remathilis very rightly points out, the base description for the "half" races in D&D has always been outsiders and outcasts. From Tanis "Half-elven" all the way throughout D&D. 5e flat out leans into it:

5e PHB said:
Walking in two worlds but truly belonging to neither, half-elves combine what some say are the best qualities of their elf and human parents: human curiosity, inventiveness, and ambition tempered by the refined senses, love of nature, and artistic tastes of the elves. Some half-elves live among humans, set apart by their emotional and physical differences, watching friends and loved ones age while time barely touches them. Others live with the elves, growing restless as they reach adulthood in the timeless elven realms, while their peers continue to live as children. Many half-elves, unable to fit into either society, choose lives of solitary wandering or join with other misfits and outcasts in the adventuring life.

Oh, goody, being a half means that I never belong to a culture. I'm set apart. I get to join other misfits. Note, dwarven adventurers aren't characterized as "misfits".

5e PHB said:
Dwarves who take up the adventuring life might be motivated by a desire for treasure—for its own sake, for a specific purpose, or even out of an altruistic desire to help others. Other dwarves are driven by the command or inspiration of a deity, a direct calling or simply a desire to bring glory to one of the dwarf gods. Clan and ancestry are also important motivators. A dwarf might seek to restore a clan’s lost honor, avenge an ancient wrong the clan suffered, or earn a new place within the clan after having been exiled. Or a dwarf might search for the axe wielded by a mighty ancestor, lost on the field of battle centuries ago.

Even halflings, the prototypical unlikely hero, don't characterize adventurers as "misfits".

PHB said:
Halflings usually set out on the adventurer’s path to defend their communities, support their friends, or explore a wide and wonder-filled world. For them, adventuring is less a career than an opportunity or sometimes a necessity.

It's only the half races that are misfits.

Bedrockgames · Apr 9, 2023

Hussar said:
Tell that to my children who get called "half" on a daily basis by complete strangers. When people I meet tell me to my face that I have "half" children.

Again, we are talking about when this is used positively by people themselves or people in a neutral way to describe someone (i.e. oh he is half Irish and Half Italian). As with anything it could be used in a bad way. But the problem there isn't the word half, the problem is judging people negatively because they are mixed. People in my family use half all the time to describe themselves and one another. No one considers it a slur or bad. And where I live you hear it all the time as a neutral descriptor.

That is different though than walking up to a random child and using it in a way to suggest they don't belong. A lot of the reason ignoring the idea of being half something is bad in my opinion is because it does the very same thing (by not recognizing that someone is half X and half Y, you dismiss something that might be important to their identity).

Bedrockgames · Apr 9, 2023

Hussar said:
And, as @Remathilis very rightly points out, the base description for the "half" races in D&D has always been outsiders and outcasts. From Tanis "Half-elven" all the way throughout D&D. 5e flat out leans into it:

Oh, goody, being a half means that I never belong to a culture. I'm set apart. I get to join other misfits. Note, dwarven adventurers aren't characterized as "misfits".

That is the trope, which I mentioned and I don't see an issue with it with fictional races (again all humans in D&D are the same). But just as someone who had their foot in two different cultures growing up, it is a trope that resonates with me. Not going to resonate with everyone. But I enjoy exploring it in an RPG. That said, it isn't the only way to handle things. I wouldn't personally point to 5E as having the best lore for the races in D&D.

Hussar said:
Even halflings, the prototypical unlikely hero, don't characterize adventurers as "misfits".

It's only the half races that are misfits.

Again I don't think this is a commentary on real world people who are half something and half something else. I think it is stemming from the thought experiment of a race that has some human characteristics and some elven (and much of their isolation comes from things in this instance it seems----I don't play 5E so I can't be sure---from the longevity issue). And the whole misfits and outcasts thing seems like they are trying to make a race that appeals to gamers who feel like outcasts (which I think isn't an uncommon experience in the hobby). I didn't get malice from it. But it isn't how I would do half elves personally.

For my own preference I always kind of liked how 2E handled them:

MonsterEnvy · Apr 9, 2023

Micah Sweet said:
WotC's decisions were/are based in fear. I wasn't talking about you at all.

Pretty sure your making that up.

Hussar · Apr 9, 2023

But no one is erasing anything. You can still absolutely play a mixed heritage character. Nothing has changed. But instead of your mixed heritage character automatically being an outcast and actually full on described as being literally a different race from your parents instead of belonging to both, now you can define your own character however you choose.

How is that a bad thing?

Hussar · Apr 9, 2023

Bedrockgames said:
:

View attachment 281411

Did you actually read that first paragraph? Holy one drop bigotry Batman. If you are 51% human then you are human but if you are 99% elf you’re a half elf? And you think that’s BETTER?

When they meet people they are either fetishized or hated? They have no language or culture of their own?

How I the world is that better

Bedrockgames · Apr 9, 2023

Hussar said:
Did you actually read that first paragraph? Holy one drop bigotry Batman. If you are 51% human then you are human but if you are 99% elf you’re a half elf? And you think that’s BETTER?

When they meet people they are either fetishized or hated? They have no language or culture of their own?

How I the world is that better

Again, this is a fictional race, I don't think it has anything do with with real world bigotry (though some of the entry does reflect bigotry within the default settings, which I think is fine).

The bit about language and culture just means there aren't communities of half elves that have formed separate cultures around that identity. But I think that is the sort of detail an individual GM could tinker with pretty easily if they wanted a half elven culture.

Also, that is just my personal favorite take on half elves. I didn't say it was better or worse than others. I am sure there are people who prefer the 1E, 3E, 4E or the 5E entries. It is all taste.

Bedrockgames · Apr 9, 2023

Hussar said:
But no one is erasing anything. You can still absolutely play a mixed heritage character. Nothing has changed. B

To be clear my point earlier was about the statement they made around the term half. For a lot of people that is part of their identity and problematizing it is dismissive IMO. But in terms of the mechanics I think the issue I take isn't that they are removing the half elf, it is that their changes seem highly unsatisfactory to me (for reasons I have stated). I just think the half orc and the half elf are time-tested elements of the game that work. I also think Race+Class is a really solid character creation method.

Hussar said:
ut instead of your mixed heritage character automatically being an outcast and actually full on described as being literally a different race from your parents instead of belonging to both, now you can define your own character however you choose.

Hussar said:
How is that a bad thing?

This is very subjective. Not everyone is going to have the same view here. For me, I just prefer the simplicity of the original approach and I like the simplicity of the original types the game has from AD&D on (though the half orc is missed in 2nd edition). Maybe more people will like the approach they are taking. I don't know. But I feel like they are doing things to the game that are taking out or drastically changing essential elements to it.

That said, to me this isn't a huge deal. I have the old editions. I can play those. I have variations on the game, I can play those. I am not too worried about it. But topics like this are ones where I feel it is important for everyone to weigh in with their opinion because D&D always leads the hobby

Hussar · Apr 9, 2023

Bedrockgames said:
Again, this is a fictional race, I don't think it has anything do with with real world bigotry (though some of the entry does reflect bigotry within the default settings, which I think is fine).

The bit about language and culture just means there aren't communities of half elves that have formed separate cultures around that identity. But I think that is the sort of detail an individual GM could tinker with pretty easily if they wanted a half elven culture.

Also, that is just my personal favorite take on half elves. I didn't say it was better or worse than others. I am sure there are people who prefer the 1E, 3E, 4E or the 5E entries. It is all taste.

No it really isn’t just “all taste”. Good grief that first paragraph reads exactly like “one drop”. That it’s a fictional race really misses the point.

But I guess this is why we are really not going to agree here. To me the inherent bigotry is self evident.

Bedrockgames · Apr 9, 2023

Hussar said:
No it really isn’t just “all taste”. Good grief that first paragraph reads exactly like “one drop”. That it’s a fictional race really misses the point.

But I guess this is why we are really not going to agree here. To me the inherent bigotry is self evident.

I would say that it is a fictional race is entirely the point though. There isn't anything in this text that is advocating bigotry. I think you have to squint a bit to get upset about it to be honest

D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

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