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D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

Shiroiken

Legend
I'm on the fence. Almost everything past Gygax's departure has been crap, both from TSR and WotC. Making Greyhawk the default in 3E was the death knell for the setting, since it turned into generic nothing. Because of this I'm pretty hesitant of Greyhawk getting a full revisit. Ghosts of Saltmarsh was really well done, at least the Greyhawk part of it, but that could be the exception, rather than the rule.

I've no reason to think that he wouldn't have eventually created cat men(Tabaxi) or dragon men(Dragonborn) and popped them into a spot he felt appropriate on Greyhawk, so I don't think that adding new races would be going against the grain of the setting.
The big trick to new races is not upsetting the existing canon. For example, dropping a Dragonborn empire into either the existing setting or the history of the Flannaess would be nigh impossible to do without disrupting too much. Adding creatures/races is easy, so long as they aren't something that competes with the with "common" races. In my GH campaign Dragonborn are the equivalent of half-elves and half-orcs, being the descendants of of half-dragons. Goliaths came about in a similar fashion with giants.

Wait, they were kind of like SPECTRE or the League of Assassins? That's awesome! I only came across them in 3e and thought the public facing Nazis was a bit dumb (my opinion only). Shadowy groups that use intermediaries are much more fun.
For centuries they were an unknown shadowy organization, but then "first reports" of them occured 3 years prior to the start of the boxed set (CY 576). It's never stated what these reports are, allowing the DM to determine how they wanted to use them. I found them to be an excellent bogeyman, working as a shadow organization that even uses its own name to its advantage, such as getting someone accused of being a member. Their end goal was largely irrelevant, since success was nigh impossible within the timeframe of a campaign, making it about gaining power. Their public reveal was a terrible decision IMO.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I'm super impressed with this Greyhawk wiki I've discovered... Greyhawk Wiki

The sourcing seems really strong and it has a gallery of images for key NPCs and places. The imagery is very much solidifying Greyhawk as a world heavily inspired by the pulp fantasy of the 70s/80s like Conan, Elric, Dragonslayer...

IUZ
1653756558894.png


LORD ROBILAR
1653756728249.png


ZAGIG
1653756748951.png
 


Even if it was not too good, it is an easier option than starting totally from zero, with and a lore totally unknown by the rest of the players, but also allowing some flexibility to add some homebred touchs.

The Scarlet Brotherhood was maybe my last AD&D 2nd book, and it was mainly lore. It has got old very well. I love it as piece of collection, although the crunch part wasn't too useful now. I bought it because it had got the AD&D 2nd assasin and monk classes.

Hasbro wants D&D to be a cinematic universe, and if Forgotten Realms started to suffer troubles to keep coherence with the continuity, then Greyhawk is perfect as second option, plan B, or spin-off.

And GH has got lots of most of iconics characters from D&D multiverse. If Hasbro wants to sell action figures of D&D with a little retro touch of ninty-aughts decades, Mialee's gang, the 3.5 iconic characters should be the perfect option.

dnd-art-adventures.jpg


If the chronomancers are reintroduced again, with plots about time travels or even alternate-rewritten timelines, GH could allow more flexibility than FR. Or other classes with special game mechanics, as psionic manifester, ki martial adepts or incarnum soulmelders. Those ideas can be added in GH with an easier explanation than FR.
 

Use different settings as opportunities to explore different styles and themes, rather than feel the need to cram everything into every setting (e.g. my joking example of "Starshimmer Elves" in Dark Sun, or "nice Drow"in Greyhawk). Each setting can and should be distinct and unique, imo.
I do think that we have the 50th Anniversary coming up, and on or just before that would be the appropriate time to re-visit and reboot Greyhawk.

Well, the 2024 edition is an anniversary, but also a chance to turn a page in terms of certain legacy mechanics (humanoid alignment, racial asi, etc). They've also been pivoting to a "multiverse" approach, which also fits to how players want to play (i.e. the desire to play a loxodon or whatever is greater than the desire to play a Greyhawk campaign). So it would be a bit jarring if they present Greyhawk as a 2024 setting that doesn't fit with both of those prerogatives.

Whereas, expanding the FR ren faire kitchen sink will always be a popular way to go...
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Well, the 2024 edition is an anniversary, but also a chance to turn a page in terms of certain legacy mechanics (humanoid alignment, racial asi, etc). They've also been pivoting to a "multiverse" approach, which also fits to how players want to play (i.e. the desire to play a loxodon or whatever is greater than the desire to play a Greyhawk campaign). So it would be a bit jarring if they present Greyhawk as a 2024 setting that doesn't fit with both of those prerogatives.
.

Oh no. I literally wrote like … 500 posts about the Gygaxian multiverse….

Greyhawk was the origin of the D&D multiverse! You can’t shake a stick on Greyhawk without finding a portal to another alternate material plane!

From the OP:

The barriers to the multiverse are permeable in Greyhawk; there are rumors of a crashed metal vehicle in the Barrier Peaks, and of shimmering portals to many worlds within the ruins of Castle Greyhawk.

:)
 

Oh no. I literally wrote like … 500 posts about the Gygaxian multiverse….

Greyhawk was the origin of the D&D multiverse! You can’t shake a stick on Greyhawk without finding a portal to another alternate material plane!

From the OP:

The barriers to the multiverse are permeable in Greyhawk; there are rumors of a crashed metal vehicle in the Barrier Peaks, and of shimmering portals to many worlds within the ruins of Castle Greyhawk.

:)

That's true...I guess it would depend on how they present the setting. There's a difference between, "there's a portal to Limbo so Githzerai aren't weird in this world" and "there's a portal to where???"
 

JohnF

Adventurer
Greyhawk was the origin of the D&D multiverse! You can’t shake a stick on Greyhawk without finding a portal to another alternate material plane!
Oh, yes!

Who remembers the quasi-deity Heward? He had a home in Greyhawk that, as per Gygax in Dragon #71, was "nondescript on the exterior. It extends into many extra-dimensional spaces, so its interior actually contains all manner of rooms and spaces — from cramped lofts to a grand auditorium with a great organum, including open gardens and spacious parks. This domicile is a nexus which touches parallel worlds, many planes, and the dimension of time." Somewhat TARDIS-y, no?

(Aside: I will beat the Heward-was-inspired-by-Dr-Who drum forever, no matter how many times the experts tell me otherwise. Forever!)

The invitation to the multiverse was right there from the earliest Greyhawk days, and Greyhawk's plethora of pathways would be quite welcomed in today's pop culture climate.
 

I'm on the fence. Almost everything past Gygax's departure has been crap, both from TSR and WotC. Making Greyhawk the default in 3E was the death knell for the setting, since it turned into generic nothing. Because of this I'm pretty hesitant of Greyhawk getting a full revisit. Ghosts of Saltmarsh was really well done, at least the Greyhawk part of it, but that could be the exception, rather than the rule.


The big trick to new races is not upsetting the existing canon. For example, dropping a Dragonborn empire into either the existing setting or the history of the Flannaess would be nigh impossible to do without disrupting too much. Adding creatures/races is easy, so long as they aren't something that competes with the with "common" races. In my GH campaign Dragonborn are the equivalent of half-elves and half-orcs, being the descendants of of half-dragons. Goliaths came about in a similar fashion with giants.


For centuries they were an unknown shadowy organization, but then "first reports" of them occured 3 years prior to the start of the boxed set (CY 576). It's never stated what these reports are, allowing the DM to determine how they wanted to use them. I found them to be an excellent bogeyman, working as a shadow organization that even uses its own name to its advantage, such as getting someone accused of being a member. Their end goal was largely irrelevant, since success was nigh impossible within the timeframe of a campaign, making it about gaining power. Their public reveal was a terrible decision IMO.
Well, lots of things I don't agree with. The From the Ashes box set was great, the Mark Lands, Iuz the Evil, The Scarlet Brotherhood and the free Ivid the Undying were simply great source books. Even some of the adventures were very fun to play and wee chokeful of lore. Only the 3.5ed treatment on Greyhawk was "meh" because it simply restated what happened during FtH era.

New races? Dragonborn are easy to incorporate. I was on your side until one of my player came up with dragonborns as transdimensional refugee in the Abhor Alz. The story behind their flight was really well made and we all expanded it so that though they are rare, they can be played. Some other table even opted for that approach too. If we could do it, any table can. And even Tabaxi can be easily incorporated, they were in the FF afterall....

The Scarlet Brotherhood supplement was really good for us and provided hours upon hours of play and role play. They made wonderful shadowy villains and unexpected allies. Afterall, the enemy of my enemy is my friend (until it is no longer the case that is).

Greyhawk has a lot to offer to a new playe. It all depends on how the DM and other players will present the campaign world and how they will roleplay the world. It can be a grim post war world where hope seems to be all but lost and where people are in need of heroes to protect them until things settle down and our heroes are struggling to simply have their next meal. Or it can be a world where the PCs are shinning beacon of hope whose names are whispered in silent prayers by the oppressed or cursed by villains and fiends.
 


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