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Which is the *best* European country?

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Zappo

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If I lived in the USA and didn't speak Italian, I would consider learning it and moving to Italy just for the food. I've been living in the UK for four months and I'm slowly going insane, and from what I hear the USA are even worse. :confused:

Plus, we've got good climate, more art than you can see in a couple of lifetimes, and a chaotic good national alignment. If a law is stupid, people just ignore it. :p

More seriously (I confirm all of the above, but the Italian job market is currently terrible), I'll try to express you the way I feel about living in Europe; I think that could be closer to what you're looking for. I'll try hard to steer clear of judgements and politics. Keep in mind that I live in Italy, but I've also lived for 4 months now in England, and I've been in holiday everywhere around Europe.

In Europe as a general rule you should expect higher taxes and stricter regulations on businesses. Nothing nightmarish, though. The upside is much better welfare - good free health service, good and cheap public education (in Italy public schools and universities are top-notch; people who go to private usually do so because they're easier), lots of social protections (it's relatively difficult to suddenly find yourself in a state of poverty), guaranteed retirement money, that sort of stuff. Do you read Something Positive? Davan's job probably doesn't even exist here.

Now, lots of americans I've talked with don't like this. It's a philosophical thing, can't debate it here, but that's how it works here. Most people here consider it a very good deal since we believe that health and education are fundamental rights of everyone, and from what I can see the standard of living for the middle and middle-upper class is just the same as the USA. I think the very rich, especially people with medium to large businesses, are better off in the USA. Then again, rich people are well-off anywhere, that's why they are called rich. :p Poor people are definitely better off here.

So, freedom for businesses is restricted when compared to the USA. As for personal freedoms, I think we are better off; I speak for Italy but I think the general attitude is similar throughout Europe. Your Deck of Many Things or NIN examples would probably cause a minor uproar; police forces have to tread carefully when it comes to ideological topics. Those episodes just don't happen. Kids generally don't get indoctrinated in school, neither to religion nor to patriotism; no hymns or prayers. The part regarding patriotism is especially true in Italy - after fascism, we really, really don't want to be told to love the country and support the government. We've had enough of it for about a billion years. I'm two generations removed, and I still feel white hot rage at the idea of forcing kids to sing the national anthem. It would probably cause a small revolt. We believe that love of your country is something good but that must not be imposed, not even by simple peer pressure, let alone by regulation.

Going to jail is a lot harder. You need to do something very serious, or keep doing something stupid repeatedly; otherwise, you'll probably get some community service, a fine, or get restricted to your city for a while.

Gas costs, uhm, about one euro per liter in Italy? Could be a bit off here. Definitely much more than the USA. But it's not a big problem: remember that wherever you go, it will be a country a couple of orders of magnitude smaller than the USA. The best proof of this is that in Italy, despite the cost of gas, we've got almost one car per person on average!

There is a bit of antiamericanism going on, but it isn't nearly as big as the media say. Lots of people are more or less annoyed at the USA as a nation, but virtually noone extends this to americans as people. No problem here.

Corruption... meh, I live in Italy. I understand that the rest of Europe is better in this regard. :p We're slowly getting out of it, though. Can't be more detailed without pulling politics in.

Publishing: I don't know anything about this in Europe, but my mother is starting a small publishing company in her spare time, so it can't be too bad. Don't expect to make big money out of it, but that's true everywhere. Small press doesn't get you rich (heck, even big press is considered a risky investment).

You can own a gun, but it's not nearly as easy as in the USA and they are heavily regulated. We don't like to have our freedoms restricted for little gain, but in the case of firearms, we consider it to be a very irrelevant restriction (you can get one if you really want to) and a very good gain. Consider that not only I don't know anyone at all who owns a firearm, except for a single friend who is a hunter and has some hunting rifles, but I don't even know anyone who would get a firearm if the regulations were relaxed.

No legal weed though. Oh well, it's the same everywhere save Netherlands, I can't complain too much. You can get illegal weed easy though, and the "very hard to go to jail" rule applies. I don't know what you get for possessing small amounts of it, but I'm positive that it's not a big deal.

Do I feel free? Well, yes. Oh, yes. Whatever I may want to do that doesn't hurt another, not only it's legal, but it's usually also socially acceptable. From what I read around the 'net, this isn't always the case in the USA. Playing RPGs in the 80s, for example. I feel I'm better off here.

Hope this helps. :)
 
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Wales.

Why? Well, there's nothing THERE. :)

...except my girlfriend(who happens to be here in America at the moment, NOT the point), an army of sheep, and trees, of course...

...besides, where did the best archers come from? They weren't called Welsh Archers for nothing. :)
 

Krieg

First Post
Bloodstone Press said:
I don't want this to devolve into a political discussion, so I'll leave it there.

Then your best bet would be to not start a thread complaining about politics.

If you want to leave politics out of it then do so from the beginning; NOT after you have already used the forum as your personal soapbox. Initially all you had to do was state that you are thinking about emigrating to Europe for "personal" reasons.

Turbojugend said:
Pick Norway! We're the richest country in the world.

Depends on how you define it. Going by GDP per capita Norway is #7 (Luxemborg is #1 & the US #2), but in consolation Norway IS the 5th most expensive to live in. :)
 
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AGGEMAM

First Post
Krieg said:
Depends on how you define it. Going by GDP per capita Norway is #7 (Luxemborg is #1 & the US #2), but in consolation Norway IS the 5th most expensive to live in. :)

Well. If the Norwegian goverment released its savings from the oil production every single Norgewian would be a millionaire in the local currency (about $200,000 per capita). If the US goverment did the same, every american would owe the goverment about $1,200,000. So per capita the US is among the poorest countries in the world, actually I can only think of Argentina being more indebted than the US.

And the Norwegians wouldn't have that oil if it weren't for a dainsh foreign minister back in 1963 getting hammered and giving the area were it was later found to the Norwegians.
 

If I understand correctly, you live in Tennessee. It's going to be one heck of a shock (IMO), moving from Tennessee to Scandinavia (weather wise)...

You could try transitioning by Canada. Real nice place (especially Montreal, Quebec - for me). You can get by in English in Quebec (Canada is, after all, a bilingual country), especially in big cities. Montreal has a real European feel (or so I've heard from visiting Europeans), and plenty of gamers. It's cheaper than Europe, and the people are real nice (not that Europens arent! :))

Question about cities: Are you planning on moving to a big city or a more secluded region? Do you want to live in an appartment or a 15,000-square-foot yard? IMO, If you're moving to another country where English isn't the main language, you're going to have problems if you don't move to a big city...

AR
 

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Then your best bet would be to not start a thread complaining about politics.

If you want to leave politics out of it then do so from the beginning; NOT after you have already used the forum as your personal soapbox. Initially all you had to do was state that you are thinking about emigrating to Europe for "personal" reasons

Well, my initial post doesn't have any political comments in it at all. Its only when I got down to the 3rd or 4th post that I started to get pissed again. Sorry about that. I'll edit out the more political comments.

Wales.

Why? Well, there's nothing THERE.

That is a very attractive quality. I'll add it to my list. Thanks.

@ Zappo: Thanks for all the info on Italy. I agree that Italian food is the best. And you do have the best art in the world, not to mention some great historical sites. Not only that, but in my opinion, Italian women are the most beautiful in the world.

However, I don't speak Italian and I think it would be too hard to learn. It would certainly be a great place to visit, at least.

Corruption... meh, I live in Italy.

Understood.. ;)

Gas costs, uhm, about one euro per liter in Italy? Could be a bit off here. Definitely much more than the USA.

Actually we are paying close to $2 a gallon right now. I'm not sure what the exact exchange rate is from Euro to Dollar, but I know it hovers close to 1:1.

Most of that is a change that has occurred in the past few months though, so maybe folks in Italy are paying a lot more too and you just haven't been there to see it.

Only keep in mind that this is a small and very crowded country, so it is hard (or perhaps nearly impossible) to walk for more than an hour not finding a house, a road, a fence,

I noticed that when researching populations. IIRC, there are about 5 times as many people in the Netherlands as there are in Denmark, and it is smaller in area.

One way to look at that though is to think that if that many people want to live there, it must be a good place, right?

Or Switzerland. That's a great place to learn a lot of languages, which I think would be really cool.

Not me. I have a lot of trouble learning a new language. I've studied Spanish and French and I can't speak either one of them. I think Switzerland would be a nightmare for the languages alone. The mountains are pretty though.

If I understand correctly, you live in Tennessee. It's going to be one heck of a shock (IMO), moving from Tennessee to Scandinavia (weather wise)...

Well, I lived for 15 years in up-state NY (about 20 miles from the Canadian boarder). I've been outside in -40 degree weather. I've seen 3 feet of snow fall over night. I certainly don't miss it.

The weather is one thing I love about TN. Winters are over before you even know it. Sometimes it doesn't snow here all year long. Even in January we get sporadic nice days where you can go out with only a light jacket on.
 

Question about cities: Are you planning on moving to a big city or a more secluded region? Do you want to live in an appartment or a 15,000-square-foot yard? IMO, If you're moving to another country where English isn't the main language, you're going to have problems if you don't move to a big city...

Well, I want the best of both worlds... :eek:

A suburb that is close to a city, but not too close, would be ideal. I'll be buying a house in a few years, no more apartments for me. Had enough of that already.
 
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AGGEMAM

First Post
Bloodstone Press said:
Actually we are paying close to $2 a gallon right now. I'm not sure what the exact exchange rate is from Euro to Dollar, but I know it hovers close to 1:1.

The euro-dollar exchange rate is about 10 to 12, ie a euro cost 1,2 dollars. And remember that a gallon is 3,78 liters, so it's still rough 80% more expensive here.

You have to get used to the metric system if you wanna move here. ;)


Bloodstone Press said:
I noticed that when researching populations. IIRC, there are about 5 times as many people in the Netherlands as there are in Denmark, and it is smaller in area.

Well, it's 3 times as many people in a third of the space, yeah, it's crammed down in the Netherlands.

On an interesting note for you, since Denmark was the first country in the world to accept your independence, you can still officially have the 4th of July off, and speaking of being off work. Here everyone has at least 5 weeks of vacation some even more, plus around 12 holidays on top of that.

Also because of this age old connection between the USA and Denmark, you can go here without a VISA (well you can in most european countries) and you can start working immediately, you don't need a green card. Furthermore after 6 months in the country you can have the full benefits of our social security system.

EDIT: Oh, btw, AR .. good thing you're not here. Releasing a picture like that will get you fined. And I'll be first one to turn you in, mate.
 
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Andrew D. Gable

First Post
Synchronicity abounds, neh? I wanna move too. Probably England, since I'm a neo-Victorian already and England just appeals to me on a lot of levels. Depending on how certain things that shall remain nameless go later this year, well that might just provide the final impetus.

How's the cost of living, etc. in Britain? I imagine it depends on where exactly you are...probably be looking at London, 'cause I always wanted to live in a big city.
 

Turbojugend

First Post
AGGEMAM: Well. If the Norwegian goverment released its savings from the oil production every single Norgewian would be a millionaire in the local currency (about $200,000 per capita). If the US goverment did the same, every american would owe the goverment about $1,200,000. So per capita the US is among the poorest countries in the world, actually I can only think of Argentina being more indebted than the US.

Yes, we're hoarding up. We've got trillions of our oil dollars hidden in a swiss bankaccount. Come to Norway, join the fun.

AGGEMAM: And the Norwegians wouldn't have that oil if it weren't for a dainsh foreign minister back in 1963 getting hammered and giving the area were it was later found to the Norwegians.

Hey! You took Grønland from us and and humiliated us for hundreds of years! Its only fair that we got the oil. ;)

But seriously, I really thought the Scandinavian countries were the best countries in the world. We've got nature, culture and money.
 

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