D&D 5E (2014) Level = Challenge Rating

[Leatherhead]

There are already too many disparate uses of the word "level" in the system.
Not only is it for characters, but also spells which are on a separate 0-9 track no less.
Adding monsters into the mix can only make it more confusing, doubly so because that would imply that a monster is equal to a PC at some point.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There are already too many disparate uses of the word "level" in the system.
Not only is it for characters, but also spells which are on a separate 0-9 track no less.
Adding monsters into the mix can only make it more confusing, doubly so because that would imply that a monster is equal to a PC at some point.

That's...that's exactly the intent.

A level 12 creature is appropriate for a level 12 character to fight. That's precisely why you do it.

This is not overloading the term "level." It is using the same term in the same way. Level 12 characters will get approximately the intended, baseline combat experience from a healthy mix of roughly as many level 12 opponents as there are characters.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

There are already too many disparate uses of the word "level" in the system.
Not only is it for characters, but also spells which are on a separate 0-9 track no less.
Adding monsters into the mix can only make it more confusing, doubly so because that would imply that a monster is equal to a PC at some point.

Beat me to posting exactly what I was going to write. Whether you use the term CR or Level is just semantics and doesn't help make anything more balanced, but I prefer they keep the term "Challenge Rating" instead of having yet another usage of the word "Level" thrown into the mix.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

A level 12 creature is appropriate for a level 12 character to fight. That's precisely why you do it.

How would this actually help anything? Does anyone care about balancing solo monsters vs solo characters? The existing CR system is a hot mess but at least it is attempting to balance things against an actual relevant party size.

All they really need to do in my opinion is stop pretending like anyone does 6-8 combat encounters per day, and balance around 1-2 combats per day.

 

[CreativeInsanity]

"Challenge" wasn't supposed to be direct level as magical creatures such as dragons used to be much more stronger than their actual levels, or people having god-like abilities. So I don't see why they changed that, it will just confuse people.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

How would this actually help anything?

It worked in 4e, and it worked in 13A. Given the encounter-balancing rules for those games are well-oiled machines, as opposed to the flaming dumpster fire that CR has been in both 3e and 5e, I should think the benefits are obvious:

a system that actually works as advertised.

 

[MarkB]

Encounter balance is always going to be a matter of judgement. Whether you use challenge rating or level, it can't account for all the variables of how well or badly groups of monsters synergise with each other or the environment, or how particular monster capabilities may stack up against different PC group compositions. At best, it's a tool to get you into vaguely the right ballpark.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Encounter balance is always going to be a matter of judgement. Whether you use challenge rating or level, it can't account for all the variables of how well or badly groups of monsters synergise with each other or the environment, or how particular monster capabilities may stack up against different PC group compositions. At best, it's a tool to get you into vaguely the right ballpark.

sure, but 4e and pf2e's encounter building systems working as well as they do suggests that using level can give you much better estimates then CR can.

 

[Leatherhead]

That's...that's exactly the intent.

A level 12 creature is appropriate for a level 12 character to fight. That's precisely why you do it.

This is not overloading the term "level." It is using the same term in the same way. Level 12 characters will get approximately the intended, baseline combat experience from a healthy mix of roughly as many level 12 opponents as there are characters.

4e monsters were never meant to be equal (emphasis) to a PC of X level, only to dish out the appropriate DPR for their position in a single encounter. They are not interchangeable parts and were not created using even remotely the same rules.

The math of CR aside, using a different terminology for monsters is important to remind people that Monsters and PCs are supposed to be different. The only way to change that would be a real edition change.

 

[Horwath]

CR should be what it was "in theory" in 3E

single creature of CR of party level should drain about 20% of daily resources of 4 member party.