• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D General Styles of D&D Play

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Is there a clear structure that must be followed with Skill Challenges or are they open to more liberal interpretation. For example, what I do in a lot of my games is riff with the players as the action is occurring, essentially using skills in a kind of rulings approach (similar to how a lot of people use attribute rolls in OD&D). So I may tell them what is initially going on, then they say what they want to do, so I would call for a relevant skill, maybe two, and we progress along. This could be used for example int he climbing of a mountain, where there is a lot of back and forth and I adapt a lot to the player's declared actions. And I may establish for myself in the middle of the action that a certain number of Muscle Rolls is required to climb out of a problem the player has encountered or shift to a combination of skill rolls.
It's the old "Do mess with it until you play by the rules and know what you are doing" rules.


Like DMG 1 says you shouldn't use skill challenges for climbing a mountain as not enough skills are relevant to make skill choices matter and it would be boring. It's just spamming Athletics.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

It's the old "Do mess with it until you play by the rules and know what you are doing" rules.


Like DMG 1 says you shouldn't use skill challenges for climbing a mountain as not enough skills are relevant to make skill choices matter and it would be boring. It's just spamming Athletics.

Okay, then I am probably doing something very different. I find mixing up skills in this way, as well as character abilities, can add a lot to a mountain scaling scenario (was a random example but had a situation like this when the characters tried to work their way across a ravine last session)
 

Aldarc

Legend
Then what is an acceptable term? There's nothing derogatory about saying that all resolutions of important things rely on a die roll.
But there is something derogatory about the term "rollplay" which is the point.

I don't know if there is an acceptable term anymore than there is for answering the question, "what is an acceptable term I could use to insult you?" I think that the solution isn't about finding the magic word that works; instead, the solution likely rests in framing your language in terms of your personal experiences: e.g., "my group and I had difficulty with roleplaying 4e skill challenges" rather than referring to skill challenges, combat, or whatever else as "rollplay." I would also be careful to avoiding insult generalizations that characterizes the play of others like "It seems that some people want rollplay to drive everything outside of combat instead of roleplay."
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
But there is something derogatory about the term "rollplay" which is the point.
Maybe you should frame that in terms of personal experience, e.g. "I'm of the opinion that there's something derogatory about the term 'roleplay.'" That would help to avoid generalizing everyone who uses the term as necessarily making an insult.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Okay, then I am probably doing something very different. I find mixing up skills in this way, as well as character abilities, can add a lot to a mountain scaling scenario (was a random example but had a situation like this when the characters tried to work their way across a ravine last session)
It can... if you design a system to do that.

That's kinda the whole point. In order to run this playstyle you either need to go Freeform and have a gentlemen's agreement on fairness and metagaming OR you create an option roll based system that is gear to be its own game using the base game system and sensibilities.

It's like when WOTC tried crossclass subclass. Good idea but you need to change to rules to do it as every class has a different subclass progression and focus.
 

Oofta

Legend
Okay, then I am probably doing something very different. I find mixing up skills in this way, as well as character abilities, can add a lot to a mountain scaling scenario (was a random example but had a situation like this when the characters tried to work their way across a ravine last session)

If not a mountain climbing skill I might frame it as getting up or over the mountain. There are multiple ways to do it, each with it's own risk and reward. Certain hazards may be avoided by careful analysis (investigation), some things might best be handled with careful movement (acrobatics), perhaps you remember a story of an ascent previous climbers used (history), etc.. Along with that one person could climb high (athletics), drop down a rope to help climb while someone keeps an eye out on the weather (nature) to get an idea of when a storm is going to hit and how much time the group has.

But as you said, that was just one simple example. I've done chases, escaping from collapsing tunnels, people helping others who just failed and so on. It's all very free form, the player describes what they're trying to do which may include grabbing another PC and dimension dooring with them up to a safe location like what happened in my game a while back in a slightly different scenario.
 

Oofta

Legend
To me roleplaying is just doing and saying things that you think your character would. It doesn't have to be in-depth, if you're playing a dwarf you don't have to be able to trace your family tree back 12 generations. You don't need to always speak in character or even have a backstory, you don't have to "act" to roleplay.

There are many times in D&d where you are simply roleplaying while interacting with other PCs or NPCs. Discussions with friends and allies, things that may have fairly high stakes like planning on how to invade the BBEG's lair but don't really have any immediate risk or reward, where there's not a lot of uncertainty. It's just freeplay.

But there is something derogatory about the term "rollplay" which is the point.

I don't know if there is an acceptable term anymore than there is for answering the question, "what is an acceptable term I could use to insult you?" I think that the solution isn't about finding the magic word that works; instead, the solution likely rests in framing your language in terms of your personal experiences: e.g., "my group and I had difficulty with roleplaying 4e skill challenges" rather than referring to skill challenges, combat, or whatever else as "rollplay." I would also be careful to avoiding insult generalizations that characterizes the play of others like "It seems that some people want rollplay to drive everything outside of combat instead of roleplay."

Then there are encounters. To me an encounter is when there's significant risk or reward at stake. You want to talk to a prisoner so you convince the recalcitrant jailor to see them, perhaps sneak past guards or find some other means. Then there may be issues with getting out.

That encounter can be as simple as talking to the jailor and convincing them somehow, perhaps you bribe them, make a promise, talk your way in. Some DMs will never call for a single roll, it all depends on what is said and how. In other cases the DM will try to roleplay the jailor and take their desires and needs into account then decide if what is said or the bribe offered is good enough to convince them. If it's uncertain, the DM calls for a roll.

Another way to handle it is for the DM to have predetermined appropriate skills and be open to others. There are consequences to rolls or expenditure of other resources. I do this sometimes for things like overcoming traps or purely physical challenges like getting over a mountain mentioned above. In my game the scenarios are resolved with rolls against a DC with the help of spells and magical items. Other games may have other resources such as reputation and expending influence points or a dice pool to draw from. In 4E of course they added the success and failure scorecard, something I personally dislike.

I would call the latter rollplay, just like I call combat rollplay. There is nothing wrong with it, it's a big part of my games. But if that's an objectionable term, I don't know what else to use. Mathematical resolution because you're comparing a number achieved to a target? Except that doesn't work because spells can bypass. Mechanical resolution? Rules based resolution? I'm assuming you'll consider non-roleplaying encounter just as bad?

There has to be some phrase to describe the different types of resolution out there that is not objectionable because the two ways of handling encounter resolution are fundamentally different.
 

Pedantic

Legend
Which situation do you think I wanted to avoid? Because the skill challenges certainly keep the length and number of parameters advantages. What I wanted to avoid was the "How the &$%@ do I deal with this plan the PCs have just cooked up" situation.
I'm like 15 years out of date with this criticism, because 5e clearly responded with "make it up" and people seemed to like that, but I would argue the alternative before skill challenges came onto the scene was "one action at a time, using the relevant rules for each action." The 3.X situation SCs were responding to is very different than the 5e model we have now. A crazy PC plan from before likely involved deploying specific spells and/or referring to existing skill rules, and was more likely to be foiled not by a bad roll, but by an unknown that hadn't been accounted for.
 

Aldarc

Legend
I would call the latter rollplay, just like I call combat rollplay. There is nothing wrong with it, it's a big part of my games. But if that's an objectionable term, I don't know what else to use. Mathematical resolution because you're comparing a number achieved to a target? Except that doesn't work because spells can bypass. Mechanical resolution? Rules based resolution? I'm assuming you'll consider non-roleplaying encounter just as bad?

There has to be some phrase to describe the different types of resolution out there that is not objectionable because the two ways of handling encounter resolution are fundamentally different.
I think that the problem is the desire here to view and label these things outside of your stated preference as "rollplay" rather than different approaches, priorities, and mechanical procedures for "roleplaying," which is what they are. Labeling them as "rollplaying" is othering them as not being "roleplaying." Therein is the problem. The solution is not to look for another "acceptable term" you can use to other them. The solution is to understand and accept that there are other forms of roleplaying found in games you may not like that approach play differently than your preferred mode of roleplay or mechanical involvement. 🤷‍♂️
 
Last edited:

hgjertsen

Explorer
(sic)
There has to be some phrase to describe the different types of resolution out there that is not objectionable because the two ways of handling encounter resolution are fundamentally different.
I mean, sure, but neither one of them is role-playing, because role-playing is just playing the role of your character, which is absolutely present in both which mechanical rule you decide to use to your advantage and the type of free form interactions you have as a character.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top