What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[NoWayJose]

If you don't like some of the excessive gamist/metagamey things in 4E like martial healing, divine challenge, healing surges, hit points aren't physical damage yet you can become "bloodied" and "dying" by losing hit points, you know that 4E isn't for you. You can get all of this information about 4E without reading the entire PHBI or playing several sessions of it.

Oh oh, you opened the Hit-Points-as-an-Abstraction can of worms. THEY are going to get you on that one. I agree with the overall criticism of gamist/metagamey, but THEY are going to latch onto that one point in order to distract from your overall point. Even I was won over by the hit points paradigm.

 

[Mallus]

THEY are going to get you on that one. I agree with the overall criticism of gamist/metagamey, but THEY are going to latch onto that one point in order to distract from your overall point.

Who are THEY?

Are they related to THEM!?

(cos' that would be scary... giant ants creep my out!)

 

[Herschel]

If you don't like the way ...that everyone has at-wills/encounter/dailies... healing surges...

You know what? I HATED these things from the previews (as well as monster/giant "advancement" and Dragonborn and Tieflings as "core" races. Absolutely detested them.) But I found in playing the game they actually work so well in practice even though I was really not impressed the way they read. That's why I'm really glad I tried the game instead of going by heresay.

But they found a way to market to me that made me give it a try. I was a minis player, had given 3E a 5th try with yet another group (and guys I really like) and had played the demo at Gen Con and I was going to buy the core books.

It was the FR Player's Guide that probably roped me most. It was a familiar name and gave me my now favorite race (and unbeknown to me at the time, character class).

My first character was a Windsoul Genasi Ranger because hey, I loved Rangers all the way back to 2E and Genasi are just plain cool (which their introduction as a major race was one of the admittedly few things I loved about 3E). I "bought" a 20 in strength, looked at all those hit points I had at first level, put some points in to INT for AC and whatever was left in WIS for riders and picked a background from a "homeland" without giving it much thought or justification. You know what? He was a carton of eggs. Sometimes he'd make an omelette of enemies in battle but too often he was easily dropped and a mess on the ground. My preconceived notions were what was scrambled most. I changed to a Swordmage that better fit my personality and haven't looked back.

So again, the question is how can they get someone to actually try something to bring them back? What can they do to intrigue someone enough to actually try something without heresay? That's likely the most important part.

 

[Herschel]

Who are THEY?

Are they related to THEM!?

(cos' that would be scary... giant ants creep my out!)

Cover them in chocolate and sell them at a specialty shop.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

First, it's "hearsay." I'm not being a spelling nazi, it's just that as a lawyer seeing that so often misspelled is hurting my brain.

Second, in any context other than a court of law, reliable hearsay is fantastic evidence. Everybody in the world relies on it constantly. Society could, in fact, not function without it.

Third, how did you manage to flub a character build in 4E? I've been told that's just about impossible.

Fourth, speaking just for me, I'll try any new edition of D&D, just like I tried 4E. (We played through to 4th level.) I suspect many of the "disenchanted" will do so, assuming that there's stuff in the marketing and "hearsay" that doesn't completely turn them off.

 

[Doug McCrae]

You mean like if someone says fudging works for him and his group, Jeff? That kind of hearsay?

 

[Shazman]

Yeah, I'd most likely try 5E, unless it was pretty apparent that it didn't fix a lot of the issues I have with 4E. It would also be helpful if the "marketing" didn't try to paint past editions that I loved as "badwrongfun" and make hyberbolic claims that this new edition is going to fix all of that and be "awesome", without giving any detail as to why it is "awesome".

 

[Herschel]

Right, but how can they market to "former" players who haven't given it a try? It's kind of like going after new people but yet not because they already have ideas/tastes related to the product driectly where true newbies more likely don't.

 

[Clefton Twain]

Thats some accusation. But lets hear some names and what happened, because otherwise, I am gonna call nonsense on that story. Bear in mind that alot of them post here, so better have your facts straight.

So, it was three years ago, I don't keep names in my mind that long. Basically, every question I asked about anything was responded to with very terse, condescending answers. The individual in charge of the large die at the WotC booth acted as if I'd just insulted his grandmother when I asked "So what is Dreamblade?"

"Well, if you tested it, you'd know. Did you actually *play* any of our games?" was his answer.

--CT

 

[Jeff Wilder]

You mean like if someone says fudging works for him and his group, Jeff? That kind of hearsay?

Already had that discussion. May have gone past the limits of your attention span, I suppose.

See the moderator warning on the next page, please.