What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[renau1g]

Folks who tried 4e, and found it lacking, have had a couple years now to move on to something else. Whatever they found to do instead (have a kid, take up toy trains, or Pathfinder, or whatever) will be their focus now. It will take big noise to gain their attention back again - release of a new edition could do it, for example. But just making a few modest changes to the current rules probably won't do the trick.

Oh sweet Orcus, please tell me that we as a hobby haven't lost people to *gulp* toy trains!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkSx0UB8NDE]YouTube - I Love Toy Trains Series[/ame]

 

[Umbran]

It's a question of what does it cost?
The Builder additions are a one time cost, the previous editions are set in stone and are never changing again.

Two things:

1) I don't think it is just a builder addition. It is probably an all-new builder. A character builder isn't system-agnostic. You need different builders for different systems.

2) Assuming they continue with their subscription-based model, it isn't a one-time cost. There's maintenance, and updates as their own infrastructure moves onwards. Even if they go with a downloaded application installed on your machine, maintenance will be required as operating systems and the technologies used in the builder advance, and bugs will be found, and need to be fixed.

If folks here are to be taken as an example, putting something out and then failing to support it as time goes on is, in PR terms, worse than not ever offering it.

 

[TheYeti1775]

On the contrary, it being released so soon would likely get their attention - it would be pretty shocking, and would get talked about a great deal in gaming circles.

Would they buy - I agree, probably not. But it'd get their attention

Yeah but I bet that would definitely be bad attention.
Look how bad we were at 3.5 and the 4E releases of crying 'too soon'.

Though it is strikingly similar that Essentials is coming out about the same time frame 3.5E rolled out.

 

[DaveMage]

Though it is strikingly similar that Essentials is coming out about the same time frame 3.5E rolled out.

Actually, it's a year sooner.

3.0 came out in 2000
3.5 in 2003.

4.0 came out in 2008
Essentials in 2010

 

[TheYeti1775]

Two things:

1) I don't think it is just a builder addition. It is probably an all-new builder. A character builder isn't system-agnostic. You need different builders for different systems.

2) Assuming they continue with their subscription-based model, it isn't a one-time cost. There's maintenance, and updates as their own infrastructure moves onwards. Even if they go with a downloaded application installed on your machine, maintenance will be required as operating systems and the technologies used in the builder advance, and bugs will be found, and need to be fixed.

If folks here are to be taken as an example, putting something out and then failing to support it as time goes on is, in PR terms, worse than not ever offering it.

Very good points.
I keep forgetting how different 1E/2E is to 3E/3.5E is to 4E on the builder side.
I would argue in favor of WotC simply saying we will patch it and support it in 'xyz' only. If it is only Windows 7 only, it's Windows 7 only. No one will fault them this. No one here will fault them as long as they are upfront and honest about it.
Heck you want to really make folks day, release it opensource. Highly doubt that will happen as it than earns them nothing outside of goodwill. And frankly I'm a realist. If there aren't $$ attached to the ROI, noone in WotC or Hasbro will approve.

But really though outside of the Builder creation itself, the only cost that factors in is the data entry to it.

 

[renau1g]

Very good points.

I would argue in favor of WotC simply saying we will patch it and support it in 'xyz' only. If it is only Windows 7 only, it's Windows 7 only. No one will fault them this. No one here will fault them as long as they are upfront and honest about it.

Of course they will fault them, there will be cries about Mac support, XP support, etc. This is the internet after all.

 

[WizarDru]

Now an outside observer might be tempted to say "You never noticed her large hands before? Her Adam's apple? Her penis? I though you knew all along and were cool with it."

DUDE.

Thank goodness I wasn't drinking anything when I read this.

 

[Herschel]

Several of the WotC people I met at Gencon were outright jerks and I just basically moved on.
--CT

1. This has NOTHING to do with the game itself, but more importantly....

2. WTF are you talking about? I call shenanigans unless you can explain specific instances. I've met a few of them more than once and they were nothing but cordial and enthusiastic. I've played minis against Shoe and had designers run games I've played in. This is a pretty serious accusation and screams to me of either total bs or bitterness because of an edition change beyond reasonable.

Mod Edit: You may believe or not, as you see fit. The continuing, "Give me proof or I'll publicly call you a liar," form is still confrontational, and needs to stop now.

 

[billd91]

2. WTF are you talking about? I call shenanigans unless you can explain specific instances. I've met a few of them more than once and they were nothing but cordial and enthusiastic. I've played minis against Shoe and had designers run games I've played in. This is a pretty serious accusation and screams to me of either total bs or bitterness because of an edition change beyond reasonable.

Or that he dealt with them while they were having a bad day. Or are you flat out calling him a liar because the WotC personnel can't possibly have bad moods or unprofessional moments from time to time?

 

[DaveMage]

1. This has NOTHING to do with the game itself, but more importantly....

One's perception of a publisher can absolutely affect whether you buy their games or not. At that point, the game itself becomes irrelevant.

There is one certain publisher who posts on EN World whose products I absolutely refuse to buy due to the way he's treated people on these boards (even though at least one of the products has received acclaim).

Hobby games are (obviously) an emotional buy in. If one's felt personally insulted by a company representative, the insulted person is highly unlikely to buy that company's products.

Personally, I strongly dislike what 4E has become, but none of the WotC people have ever treated me rudely or unprofessionally so the door there will remain open. However, when the other vendor personally offended me, the door shut mighty fast.

(And, yes, I fully appreciate that what some people find offensive, others find to be no big deal, but emotions are like that...)