Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana Playtest Packet 7 Live on D&D Beyond
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9128191" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>That just shows a lack of imagination and finesse. </p><p></p><p>The current version reads</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Spirit Shroud (Level 3 spell)</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">...</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Until the spell ends, any attack you make deals 1d8 extra damage when you hit a creature within 10 feet of you.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">...</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em>At Higher Levels.</em></strong> When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for every two slot levels above 3rd.</p><p></p><p>Let's try the following</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Suggested Spirit Shroud (Level 2 spell)</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">...</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Until the spell ends the <u><em>first</em></u> time you hit a creature within 10 feet of you you do 1d6 extra damage</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">...</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>At higher levels.</strong> When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for every slot level above 2nd.</p><p></p><p>First, looking at the Level 11+ bladelock which is where the problem lies. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As we've been into the current Spirit Shroud does 17.75 DPR.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The new version does 14 damage and has a 6.4% chance to miss with all three attacks and a 1/12 chance to crit on the first attack that hits. I can't be bothered to work this out but it's a hair over 14 damage.</li> </ul><p>This is a nerf.</p><p></p><p>Now let's look at the suggested version of Spirit Shroud on a bladesinger.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bladesingers never (barring Haste from someone else) get more than two attacks with Spirit Shroud - Concentration clash.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you only proc on the first attack you land you have a 40% chance of missing each attack - or a 16% chance of missing both.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a level 2 spell the new version is the only game in town.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a level 3 spell the old version did 2 * 4.5 * 60% = 5.4 extra damage. The new version does 7 * 84% which is just over 5.8 damage not counting crits. (The chance of crits is actually <em>higher</em> in the new version because it only procs on a hit - and you do more damage)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a level 4 spell the new version is better than the level 3 spell and the old one <em>isn't</em>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a level 5 spell the new version does precisely double the damage of the level 3 versio .</li> </ul><p>The same applies to if you get it on any other one or two attack class. On an Eldritch Knight ... OK it doesn't win that one except as a level 2 spell. But I'll take "buffed on any gish except a level 11+ bladelock or an eldritch knight and nerfed on the level 11 bladelock which is where it's broken". And that just by a very simple change.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9128191, member: 87792"] That just shows a lack of imagination and finesse. The current version reads [INDENT][B]Spirit Shroud (Level 3 spell)[/B][/INDENT] [INDENT]...[/INDENT] [INDENT]Until the spell ends, any attack you make deals 1d8 extra damage when you hit a creature within 10 feet of you.[/INDENT] [INDENT]...[/INDENT] [INDENT][B][I]At Higher Levels.[/I][/B] When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for every two slot levels above 3rd.[/INDENT] Let's try the following [INDENT][B]Suggested Spirit Shroud (Level 2 spell)[/B][/INDENT] [INDENT]...[/INDENT] [INDENT]Until the spell ends the [U][I]first[/I][/U] time you hit a creature within 10 feet of you you do 1d6 extra damage[/INDENT] [INDENT]...[/INDENT] [INDENT][B]At higher levels.[/B] When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for every slot level above 2nd.[/INDENT] First, looking at the Level 11+ bladelock which is where the problem lies. [LIST] [*]As we've been into the current Spirit Shroud does 17.75 DPR. [*]The new version does 14 damage and has a 6.4% chance to miss with all three attacks and a 1/12 chance to crit on the first attack that hits. I can't be bothered to work this out but it's a hair over 14 damage. [/LIST] This is a nerf. Now let's look at the suggested version of Spirit Shroud on a bladesinger. [LIST] [*]Bladesingers never (barring Haste from someone else) get more than two attacks with Spirit Shroud - Concentration clash. [*]If you only proc on the first attack you land you have a 40% chance of missing each attack - or a 16% chance of missing both. [*]As a level 2 spell the new version is the only game in town. [*]As a level 3 spell the old version did 2 * 4.5 * 60% = 5.4 extra damage. The new version does 7 * 84% which is just over 5.8 damage not counting crits. (The chance of crits is actually [I]higher[/I] in the new version because it only procs on a hit - and you do more damage) [*]As a level 4 spell the new version is better than the level 3 spell and the old one [I]isn't[/I]. [*]As a level 5 spell the new version does precisely double the damage of the level 3 versio . [/LIST] The same applies to if you get it on any other one or two attack class. On an Eldritch Knight ... OK it doesn't win that one except as a level 2 spell. But I'll take "buffed on any gish except a level 11+ bladelock or an eldritch knight and nerfed on the level 11 bladelock which is where it's broken". And that just by a very simple change. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana Playtest Packet 7 Live on D&D Beyond
Top