D&D (2024) 75 Feats -- not nearly enough

UngainlyTitan · May 16, 2024

75 is not too many but it is probably enough for the PHB. The bigger problem is the way feats are done in 5e and I have my doubts that this will be solved in the new PHB.
In my opinion, apart from a very small number of exceptions in the current game, it is not clear that any feat is worth more than a +2 to an ability.

Unless they can address this issue, there will be a problem with feats.
The other issue is the value of one feat versus another.

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

Justice and Rule said:
Never understood why it had to be a choice and not just let people have both. It was one of my first changes because it was always a bad choice to have to make.

You just characterized a decision you don't understand* as "bad".
*) by your own testimony

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

dave2008 said:
Actually, you don't need ASI to keep up (at least in 5e). We cap scores at 18 and are considering 16 for our next campaign. No issues. I would even argue it works better with MM or most official monsters this way.

PS - I forgot to mention that we don't allow strait +2 ASI either. If you get a +1 from a Feat, that is OK - but no +2 ASI! So our characters are mostly rolling with their original stats.

Do you roll up stats randomly or use the starting array?

(It's obviously one thing to be cool with your original stats if you roll great, but having access to those +2 ASIs is crucial to catching up if you started out with mediocre stats.)

Minigiant · May 16, 2024

Argyle King said:
5E characters don't get very many feat selections.

75 likely includes a lot that will never be used.

5e PCs can't take feats until level 4 and most games end before level 11.

Zaukrie said:
Mechanical differentiation is essential to me, or every fighter is the same....I think we'll disagree here.

That was the point.

Mechanical differentiation sells and keeps selling.
Mechanical sameness sells once and you have one chance to get it right

dave2008 · May 16, 2024

CapnZapp said:
Do you roll up stats randomly or use the starting array?

(It's obviously one thing to be cool with your original stats if you roll great, but having access to those +2 ASIs is crucial to catching up if you started out with mediocre stats.)

I let the players do what they want, but they all chose the array.

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

Clint_L said:
75 feats is already too many, IMO. At least half of them are rarely taken as is. Rules bloat for the sake pf a few more niche options is not good, IMO.

I would look it like this:

Before adding more feats, how about they balance the ones they've already got?

As you say, from the perspective of perhaps not a minmaxer but at least someone not oblivious to power levels, this would easily count as adding 20-30 feats to the pool of acceptable candidates, itself greatly enrichening the selection process.

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

Minigiant said:
5e PCs can't take feats until level 4 and most games end before level 11.

Unless, of course, you play variant human.

Which, of course, promptly loads of players went ahead and did. That extra feat easily outshone the racial benefits of 90% of races, in no small part due to the simple fact that extra feat slot can be filled with the optimal feat for your chosen build, and also because "one more feat than everybody else" enables a whole new set of feat chains other end-at-medium-level characters can't fully utilize.

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

dave2008 said:
I let the players do what they want, but they all chose the array.

Thanks. I think it's important context for your post.

D&D 5E - How do you handle randomly rolling for stats

(This post started out as an aside to a reply to the following post but I decided there would be better chances of a discussion in a new thread) I let the players do what they want, but they all chose the array. Whenever the DM offers you a choice of chargen method, ask yourself - what are my...

www.enworld.org

Belen · May 16, 2024

Clint_L said:
75 feats is already too many, IMO. At least half of them are rarely taken as is. Rules bloat for the sake of a few more niche options is not good, IMO.

Highly disagree. Some niche feats could be very important to different styles of play or campaigns.

CapnZapp · May 16, 2024

Belen said:
Highly disagree. Some niche feats could be very important to different styles of play or campaigns.

That sounds like a good argument for having these feats.

However it also sounds like a good argument for placing these niche campaign feats in supplements rather than the core PHB...

D&D (2024) 75 Feats -- not nearly enough

UngainlyTitan

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CapnZapp

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Minigiant

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dave2008

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D&D 5E - How do you handle randomly rolling for stats

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