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Worlds of Design: The Problem with Magimarts
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9315883" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Street-front stores where wealthy PCs (and anyone else) can pick up whatever magic they happen to need? No. (I'd say never, except were a PC or party to decide to start one then "never" wouldn't apply. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> )</p><p></p><p>Buying, selling, and trading of random items; and commissioning of specific ones? Absolutely yes.</p><p></p><p>To elaborate:</p><p></p><p>One underlying premise I hold in any campaign is that the PCs are not the only adventurers in the world. There's at least some other adventurers out there now, and have been before, and will be again. And many of those adventurers will, if any good at it, eventually end up with some magic items; and sometimes (or often?) those items won't be things they themselves can use. Add to that the various magic items that hang over fireplaces as trophies that might hit the market in estate sales if-when their owner or family dies off, and there's always going to be some random things out there looking for new owners.</p><p></p><p>A second underlying premise is that pretty much anything has - or can be given - a cash value. This would simply be an outcome of a combination of a) eons of trading assigning fairly consistent relative values to items and b) the absolute cost to get one made. If for example it costs a small-a artificer 450 g.p. for the materials required to make a +1 dagger, it's unlikely said dagger would go on the market for less than 500 g.p.; and thus 500 g.p. quickly becomes the base value of a +1 dagger. Lather-rinse-repeat for every magic item out there, and now you've got a table of bespoke-to-item values (short-cutting by valuing items formulaically by "level" or rarity, as 3e and 4e did it, leads to some garbage numbers mostly because usefulness isn't considered); malleable by the DM to suit the situation e.g. a +1 dagger with some nice jewels in the hilt might go for 600 g.p.</p><p></p><p>A third underlying premise is that what's found in the field is not necessarily going to be tailored to the PCs in any way. I should probably also note that despite running a 1e-adjacent system I've never given xp for treasure found, thus that's not a consideration in any of this.</p><p></p><p>How do item sales happen? Well, there's three main sources of supply:</p><p></p><p>First, <strong>adventurers</strong> are likely to encounter (or be brought into contact with) other adventurers during downtime through guilds, temples, common patrons, or any number of other means. From there, it's a short jump to those adventurers swapping notes on a) what they've been doing and b) what non-essential gear they might have to sell or trade at the moment; and sales and trades spring from there. The PCs themselves contribute to this market when they unload items they no longer need, or couldn't ever use, or just can't afford* to keep.</p><p></p><p>* - sometimes a party will find something so expensive that it represents most of a treasury's value, thus forcing them to choose between keeping this one item or being able to pay for other things such as training.</p><p></p><p>Second, <strong>major guilds</strong> (usually Thieves or Mages) and-or temples can and sometimes will act as brokers or clearing houses; and as these sort of places will already be high-security anyway, the robbery option becomes more risk than it's usually worth. Nobility and-or retired adventurers looking to unload items would tend to go this route. Couple that with the minor items (scrolls, potions, continual-light rocks, etc.) such places would tend to make anyway, and they become a good source for items.</p><p></p><p>Third, not everybody who <strong>commissions</strong> the construction of a bespoke item is going to come back and pick it up. Depending on the item, making it can take months or even years; and there's no guarantee the commissioner - particularly if an adventurer by trade! - will survive that long. Thus, artificers sometimes find themselves stuck with these things, and will be looking to recoup the costs incurred in making such by selling them (never mnd that the commissioner probably paid up front as well).</p><p></p><p>And there's usually just one main source of demand that we have to concern ourselves with:</p><p></p><p><strong>The PCs</strong> and their associates.</p><p></p><p>And so, the end result of all this is that whenever the PCs arrive at a significant settlement there's a chance that - if they make inquiries - there will be some items available for purchase; <em>with both the number and specifics of said items completely random</em>. (Excel for the win in generating said random lists!) The chance varies - a village will almost certainly have nothing; a major city will almost certainly have at least a few things available and sometimes several dozen - and is also varied by other considerations e.g. in a nation girding up for war, any available magic weapons and armour (other than stupendously high-end stuff) are likely to be snapped up before the PCs can hear about them; while in a nation just coming off a war magic items and weapons might be relatively easy to find.</p><p></p><p>Or, someone patient can find an artificer and commission the construction of an item. The construction process often takes far more in-game time than the PCs are willing to wait, however, so IME it usually goes that the item is commissioned now and picked up several adventures later - if the commissioner has survived and can make it back here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 9315883, member: 29398"] Street-front stores where wealthy PCs (and anyone else) can pick up whatever magic they happen to need? No. (I'd say never, except were a PC or party to decide to start one then "never" wouldn't apply. :) ) Buying, selling, and trading of random items; and commissioning of specific ones? Absolutely yes. To elaborate: One underlying premise I hold in any campaign is that the PCs are not the only adventurers in the world. There's at least some other adventurers out there now, and have been before, and will be again. And many of those adventurers will, if any good at it, eventually end up with some magic items; and sometimes (or often?) those items won't be things they themselves can use. Add to that the various magic items that hang over fireplaces as trophies that might hit the market in estate sales if-when their owner or family dies off, and there's always going to be some random things out there looking for new owners. A second underlying premise is that pretty much anything has - or can be given - a cash value. This would simply be an outcome of a combination of a) eons of trading assigning fairly consistent relative values to items and b) the absolute cost to get one made. If for example it costs a small-a artificer 450 g.p. for the materials required to make a +1 dagger, it's unlikely said dagger would go on the market for less than 500 g.p.; and thus 500 g.p. quickly becomes the base value of a +1 dagger. Lather-rinse-repeat for every magic item out there, and now you've got a table of bespoke-to-item values (short-cutting by valuing items formulaically by "level" or rarity, as 3e and 4e did it, leads to some garbage numbers mostly because usefulness isn't considered); malleable by the DM to suit the situation e.g. a +1 dagger with some nice jewels in the hilt might go for 600 g.p. A third underlying premise is that what's found in the field is not necessarily going to be tailored to the PCs in any way. I should probably also note that despite running a 1e-adjacent system I've never given xp for treasure found, thus that's not a consideration in any of this. How do item sales happen? Well, there's three main sources of supply: First, [B]adventurers[/B] are likely to encounter (or be brought into contact with) other adventurers during downtime through guilds, temples, common patrons, or any number of other means. From there, it's a short jump to those adventurers swapping notes on a) what they've been doing and b) what non-essential gear they might have to sell or trade at the moment; and sales and trades spring from there. The PCs themselves contribute to this market when they unload items they no longer need, or couldn't ever use, or just can't afford* to keep. * - sometimes a party will find something so expensive that it represents most of a treasury's value, thus forcing them to choose between keeping this one item or being able to pay for other things such as training. Second, [B]major guilds[/B] (usually Thieves or Mages) and-or temples can and sometimes will act as brokers or clearing houses; and as these sort of places will already be high-security anyway, the robbery option becomes more risk than it's usually worth. Nobility and-or retired adventurers looking to unload items would tend to go this route. Couple that with the minor items (scrolls, potions, continual-light rocks, etc.) such places would tend to make anyway, and they become a good source for items. Third, not everybody who [B]commissions[/B] the construction of a bespoke item is going to come back and pick it up. Depending on the item, making it can take months or even years; and there's no guarantee the commissioner - particularly if an adventurer by trade! - will survive that long. Thus, artificers sometimes find themselves stuck with these things, and will be looking to recoup the costs incurred in making such by selling them (never mnd that the commissioner probably paid up front as well). And there's usually just one main source of demand that we have to concern ourselves with: [B]The PCs[/B] and their associates. And so, the end result of all this is that whenever the PCs arrive at a significant settlement there's a chance that - if they make inquiries - there will be some items available for purchase; [I]with both the number and specifics of said items completely random[/I]. (Excel for the win in generating said random lists!) The chance varies - a village will almost certainly have nothing; a major city will almost certainly have at least a few things available and sometimes several dozen - and is also varied by other considerations e.g. in a nation girding up for war, any available magic weapons and armour (other than stupendously high-end stuff) are likely to be snapped up before the PCs can hear about them; while in a nation just coming off a war magic items and weapons might be relatively easy to find. Or, someone patient can find an artificer and commission the construction of an item. The construction process often takes far more in-game time than the PCs are willing to wait, however, so IME it usually goes that the item is commissioned now and picked up several adventures later - if the commissioner has survived and can make it back here. [/QUOTE]
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