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Reconciling 4e's rough edges with Story Now play
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9015086" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Alright, so a quick post on Acrobatics in 4e in Combat that give expression to Story Now play. Skill Challenges have been covered to death (by myself and others) so hopefully that is enough out there that this isn't necessary. But if its requested, I'll make a post on Acrobatics and Skill Challenges.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to include two play excerpts (as best as I can remember them...this was over a decade ago now!) for a swashbuckley Eladrin Bladesinger PC in my last 1-30 campaign.</p><p></p><p>Within the combat engine, there are two ways that Story Now priorities can be made manifest:</p><p></p><p><strong>TERRAIN STUNTS</strong></p><p></p><p> See page 42. These have been talked to death. The principle of "Say yes or roll the dice" governs this play. An easy genre credibility test then resolve it mechanically via system architecture. One moment of this that I can recall in Paragon Tier (I want to say it was around level 16 so lets go with that) was when they were fighting on the ramparts of a ruined castle. </p><p></p><p>1) The player of the Bladesinger asked whether the parapet of the ramparts they were fighting on could be sufficiently failing/crumbling so he could dash across them and trigger a Terrain Stunt via a CB3 attack vs Fort centered from an adjacent parapet square after he dashed across. I said "of course." </p><p></p><p>2) He made his Move Action w/ an Acrobatics check vs the unstable ground (looking at his level 21 sheet and reverse engineering, it appears he had like a +19 Acrobatics w/ 2d20 for Acro/Ath for Agile Athlete so nearing auto-success vs Medium DC 22) to get to where he needed to be to balance on the parapet and trigger the collapse of the ruined section.</p><p></p><p>3) Now we had to formulate the level 16, Terrain Stunt. Pretty sure it looked something like this:</p><p></p><p><strong>Ruined Parapet Topple </strong></p><p>Standard Action</p><p>Requirement: You must be on the parapet, adjacent to the origin square, and succeed at Acrobatic check (DC 22) or Slide 1 square toward the effect area and fall prone.</p><p>Attack: Close blast 3 (creatures in the blast); +19 vs. Reflex</p><p>Hit: 2d8 + 5 damage, and the target is knocked prone.</p><p>Miss: Half damage.</p><p>Effect: The area becomes difficult terrain.</p><p></p><p>He easily made the Acro check, killed a Minion, damaged a Standard and knocked it prone/put it in DT all around (so it couldn't Shift from him, thereby confirming an OA if it wanted to pursue an NPC they were protecting in the combat...and this character was punishing with OAs/MBAs).</p><p></p><p><strong>HAZARD/TRAP COUNTERMEASURES</strong></p><p></p><p>This piece doesn't get as many headlines, but its a big part of dealing with Hazards/Traps (particularly at the table where the conversation is vigorous around these things). Hazard/Trap Countermeasures can entail Skill Challenges (where Acrobatics can be deployed), but the primary way they're used is to either (a) reactively Immediate Action mitigate/evade the effects (or the worst of them) or proactively turn them off UtEoYNT or otherwise deal with them via Minor/Move/Standard Action depending. </p><p></p><p>Because this isn't spoken on a ton, I'm going to include the actual DMG1 text on this specifically (and, as always, this should be integrated with all of the rest of the rules text):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>4e DMG1 p86</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>WINGING IT</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>There is always more than one way to approach a trap or hazard. Even the best designed traps feature potential design holes that a player might exploit to counter a trap. Sometimes the best or the most fun ideas for countering a trap or hazard come as a flash of inspiration during play. </em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>Remember the first rule of improvisation: Try not to say no. When a player suggests a plausible countermeasure for a trap, even if that possibility isn’t included in the trap’s presentation, figure out the best way to resolve that using the rules: a skill check or ability check against an appropriate DC, an attack, or the use of a power. You can always use the DCs that are included in the trap’s description as example DCs for using other skills and abilities.</em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>In short, always find ways to reward quick thinking and fun when it comes to traps and hazards. Outsmarting traps, hazards, and villains (and even the DM) is fun for players, and first and foremost, your game should be fun.</em></p><p></p><p>So the same ethos and procedure that informs Terrain Stunting, but for Countermeasures vs Hazards/Traps. At Epic Tier the same character was adjacent to a large pool of Demonic Slime in the Abyss. One of the other PCs was in there and they were going to take a bunch of damage and another control effect at the start of their turn unless someone intervened. They asked if they could spend a Move Action vs High DC Acrobatics to like Legolas across a small section (I think it was 2 x 2 or 4 squares) to render it "parted" UtEoYNT as a Countermeasure. Failure would mean the Eladrin Bladesinger was now in a square of the Demonic Slime Hazard (therefore suffering the Hazard's triggered attack). Success would get their buddy out of their dire peril for the moment.</p><p></p><p>I want to say they needed a 13 and had 2d20 to hit it. They barely got it. It was a cool, thematic moment in an extremely dangerous and pivotal combat at Epic Tier. </p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p></p><p>So...yeah. Acrobatics, Terrain Stunts, Hazard/Trap Countermeasures, Story Now priorities and execution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9015086, member: 6696971"] Alright, so a quick post on Acrobatics in 4e in Combat that give expression to Story Now play. Skill Challenges have been covered to death (by myself and others) so hopefully that is enough out there that this isn't necessary. But if its requested, I'll make a post on Acrobatics and Skill Challenges. I'm going to include two play excerpts (as best as I can remember them...this was over a decade ago now!) for a swashbuckley Eladrin Bladesinger PC in my last 1-30 campaign. Within the combat engine, there are two ways that Story Now priorities can be made manifest: [B]TERRAIN STUNTS[/B] See page 42. These have been talked to death. The principle of "Say yes or roll the dice" governs this play. An easy genre credibility test then resolve it mechanically via system architecture. One moment of this that I can recall in Paragon Tier (I want to say it was around level 16 so lets go with that) was when they were fighting on the ramparts of a ruined castle. 1) The player of the Bladesinger asked whether the parapet of the ramparts they were fighting on could be sufficiently failing/crumbling so he could dash across them and trigger a Terrain Stunt via a CB3 attack vs Fort centered from an adjacent parapet square after he dashed across. I said "of course." 2) He made his Move Action w/ an Acrobatics check vs the unstable ground (looking at his level 21 sheet and reverse engineering, it appears he had like a +19 Acrobatics w/ 2d20 for Acro/Ath for Agile Athlete so nearing auto-success vs Medium DC 22) to get to where he needed to be to balance on the parapet and trigger the collapse of the ruined section. 3) Now we had to formulate the level 16, Terrain Stunt. Pretty sure it looked something like this: [B]Ruined Parapet Topple [/B] Standard Action Requirement: You must be on the parapet, adjacent to the origin square, and succeed at Acrobatic check (DC 22) or Slide 1 square toward the effect area and fall prone. Attack: Close blast 3 (creatures in the blast); +19 vs. Reflex Hit: 2d8 + 5 damage, and the target is knocked prone. Miss: Half damage. Effect: The area becomes difficult terrain. He easily made the Acro check, killed a Minion, damaged a Standard and knocked it prone/put it in DT all around (so it couldn't Shift from him, thereby confirming an OA if it wanted to pursue an NPC they were protecting in the combat...and this character was punishing with OAs/MBAs). [B]HAZARD/TRAP COUNTERMEASURES[/B] This piece doesn't get as many headlines, but its a big part of dealing with Hazards/Traps (particularly at the table where the conversation is vigorous around these things). Hazard/Trap Countermeasures can entail Skill Challenges (where Acrobatics can be deployed), but the primary way they're used is to either (a) reactively Immediate Action mitigate/evade the effects (or the worst of them) or proactively turn them off UtEoYNT or otherwise deal with them via Minor/Move/Standard Action depending. Because this isn't spoken on a ton, I'm going to include the actual DMG1 text on this specifically (and, as always, this should be integrated with all of the rest of the rules text): [INDENT][B]4e DMG1 p86 WINGING IT[/B][/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT][I]There is always more than one way to approach a trap or hazard. Even the best designed traps feature potential design holes that a player might exploit to counter a trap. Sometimes the best or the most fun ideas for countering a trap or hazard come as a flash of inspiration during play. [/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][I][/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][I]Remember the first rule of improvisation: Try not to say no. When a player suggests a plausible countermeasure for a trap, even if that possibility isn’t included in the trap’s presentation, figure out the best way to resolve that using the rules: a skill check or ability check against an appropriate DC, an attack, or the use of a power. You can always use the DCs that are included in the trap’s description as example DCs for using other skills and abilities.[/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][I][/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][I]In short, always find ways to reward quick thinking and fun when it comes to traps and hazards. Outsmarting traps, hazards, and villains (and even the DM) is fun for players, and first and foremost, your game should be fun.[/I][/INDENT] So the same ethos and procedure that informs Terrain Stunting, but for Countermeasures vs Hazards/Traps. At Epic Tier the same character was adjacent to a large pool of Demonic Slime in the Abyss. One of the other PCs was in there and they were going to take a bunch of damage and another control effect at the start of their turn unless someone intervened. They asked if they could spend a Move Action vs High DC Acrobatics to like Legolas across a small section (I think it was 2 x 2 or 4 squares) to render it "parted" UtEoYNT as a Countermeasure. Failure would mean the Eladrin Bladesinger was now in a square of the Demonic Slime Hazard (therefore suffering the Hazard's triggered attack). Success would get their buddy out of their dire peril for the moment. I want to say they needed a 13 and had 2d20 to hit it. They barely got it. It was a cool, thematic moment in an extremely dangerous and pivotal combat at Epic Tier. [HR][/HR] So...yeah. Acrobatics, Terrain Stunts, Hazard/Trap Countermeasures, Story Now priorities and execution. [/QUOTE]
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