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<blockquote data-quote="Stormonu" data-source="post: 6154204" data-attributes="member: 52734"><p>I've been futzing with this game for now going on 32 years (1979/80) - I was just in 4th grade then, about 9-10 years old. I got the Holmes set for Christmas, and AD&D (1E) had <em>just</em> come out. The rules were too complicated for me, and I lost the rulebook within a month of getting it, leaving me with only B2. I DMed my friends - without the rule book and without dice (they weren't allowed at school - teachers thought they were for gambling) until about two years later when the Moldvay set came out.</p><p></p><p>The game I ran in those two years was an amalgam of things, but it always took place in a dungeon - which I later retconned into my 'Tsre Vestu' mountain campaign. One of my friends played a human wizard (Stormonu) another an elvin fighter/wizard (Arr Kann) while my third friend played a human ranger (Griffon). I had other people come and go in the game, but those three were the primary players - until Stormonu & Arr Kann got annoyed at Griffon and abandoned him to his death in a battle against some shadows. Since we weren't using dice, a lot of the game was based on exploration. Combat was completely narrative-driven though sometimes we'd use 'pick a random number 1-10' or rock-paper-scissors for the more 'epic' battles. What I find most interesting, however, was because the encounters were narrative monsters could be a lot more dangerous - even something as simple as a single animated skeleton could be life-threatening to the characters.</p><p></p><p>I did have one 'bad' experience back in those days - my friend (the one who played Stormonu) introduced me to a group who was playing D&D at the local library. We made up 1st level characters and were sent tromping through the wilderness area of B2 - an area I was pretty familiar with (see above). Unfortunately, without thinking a thing about it, I vocalized such - I loved that adventure and a chance to actually go through it from a player's perspective sounded great. However, being about 11 years old, I wasn't quite so articulate, and I'm guessing the DM took it as meaning I was planning to 'cheat' by having had memorized all the encounters. So, the DM (who was probably 15 or 16) apparently decided to kill our three-man group - by having us encounter a black dragon in the marshland area. Unfortunately for him (and not wanting to die some fifteen minutes into the game), I reminded him about the % chance it was sleeping - and it turned out to be so. I then convinced the party to subdue it. And to his apparent chagrin, we succeeded, which our elder cleric player made the mistake of chuckling over. So one of the other veteran players, who had been on the sidelines and watching this twelve-year old best the DM, leaned over with an open Dragon magazine and said "here, run this".</p><p></p><p>I have no idea what he showed that DM (who took a few minutes to read it before smiling evilly), but this 'black knight' suddenly shows up and without a word proceeded to attack us. He killed my friend's character with a lance attack and stunned one of the other players (Hold Person, I think) <em>in the first round</em>. The knight then dismounted to attack me on foot. I turned to the black dragon and pleaded for it to attack the knight. The DM stated that with it being Chaotic Evil, if we couldn't hold our own it wouldn't attack.</p><p></p><p>"But shouldn't you roll a morale or reaction roll for that?" I asked, "we did subdue it." The DM relented, grabbed the dice to make a morale check (2d6, I think), gave it all kinds of negative modifiers and said basically the only way it would succeed was if it critted (basically a 2, if it was 2d6). I nodded, but no longer liking or trusting this guy, I told him to roll it in the open, where everyone could see it.</p><p></p><p>The roll came up 2. The black dragon grumbled, but breathed acid on the black knight (who I knew failed the save by seeing the DM roll his eyes after making the knight's save), but it wasn't quite enough to kill him. The black knight then skewered me (completely ignoring the dragon's attack) and then, leaving our dead bodies, left arm-in-arm with the black dragon. After that, we all packed up and started to head home. The veteran guy, who'd been sitting on the DM's side of the table stopped me after the DM had headed out and confided to me, "really, that black dragon killed the knight, by about 5 hit points," he told me, leaving me stunned and furious. I ever after vowed I'd be a better and less vindictive DM than how I felt I was treated at that game.</p><p></p><p>Later, I didn't get into AD&D until 9th grade - around the time Unearthed Arcana came about - that was when I got the AD&D rules. And it was also that time that I started to get more serious about the rules. I was so disgusted with the order of the rules spread over the PHB, DMG and UA that I rewrote them down in a journal in abbreviated form so I could better compile and understand them (ah, to go back to that age when I had the time to do things like that...). Ever since AD&D, I started becoming more and more of a 'rules lawyer' sort of DM who was very strict about following the rules to the letter, as best I could.</p><p></p><p>But I think I still have a soft spot for rules-lite games that goes back to my first few years of playing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stormonu, post: 6154204, member: 52734"] I've been futzing with this game for now going on 32 years (1979/80) - I was just in 4th grade then, about 9-10 years old. I got the Holmes set for Christmas, and AD&D (1E) had [I]just[/I] come out. The rules were too complicated for me, and I lost the rulebook within a month of getting it, leaving me with only B2. I DMed my friends - without the rule book and without dice (they weren't allowed at school - teachers thought they were for gambling) until about two years later when the Moldvay set came out. The game I ran in those two years was an amalgam of things, but it always took place in a dungeon - which I later retconned into my 'Tsre Vestu' mountain campaign. One of my friends played a human wizard (Stormonu) another an elvin fighter/wizard (Arr Kann) while my third friend played a human ranger (Griffon). I had other people come and go in the game, but those three were the primary players - until Stormonu & Arr Kann got annoyed at Griffon and abandoned him to his death in a battle against some shadows. Since we weren't using dice, a lot of the game was based on exploration. Combat was completely narrative-driven though sometimes we'd use 'pick a random number 1-10' or rock-paper-scissors for the more 'epic' battles. What I find most interesting, however, was because the encounters were narrative monsters could be a lot more dangerous - even something as simple as a single animated skeleton could be life-threatening to the characters. I did have one 'bad' experience back in those days - my friend (the one who played Stormonu) introduced me to a group who was playing D&D at the local library. We made up 1st level characters and were sent tromping through the wilderness area of B2 - an area I was pretty familiar with (see above). Unfortunately, without thinking a thing about it, I vocalized such - I loved that adventure and a chance to actually go through it from a player's perspective sounded great. However, being about 11 years old, I wasn't quite so articulate, and I'm guessing the DM took it as meaning I was planning to 'cheat' by having had memorized all the encounters. So, the DM (who was probably 15 or 16) apparently decided to kill our three-man group - by having us encounter a black dragon in the marshland area. Unfortunately for him (and not wanting to die some fifteen minutes into the game), I reminded him about the % chance it was sleeping - and it turned out to be so. I then convinced the party to subdue it. And to his apparent chagrin, we succeeded, which our elder cleric player made the mistake of chuckling over. So one of the other veteran players, who had been on the sidelines and watching this twelve-year old best the DM, leaned over with an open Dragon magazine and said "here, run this". I have no idea what he showed that DM (who took a few minutes to read it before smiling evilly), but this 'black knight' suddenly shows up and without a word proceeded to attack us. He killed my friend's character with a lance attack and stunned one of the other players (Hold Person, I think) [I]in the first round[/I]. The knight then dismounted to attack me on foot. I turned to the black dragon and pleaded for it to attack the knight. The DM stated that with it being Chaotic Evil, if we couldn't hold our own it wouldn't attack. "But shouldn't you roll a morale or reaction roll for that?" I asked, "we did subdue it." The DM relented, grabbed the dice to make a morale check (2d6, I think), gave it all kinds of negative modifiers and said basically the only way it would succeed was if it critted (basically a 2, if it was 2d6). I nodded, but no longer liking or trusting this guy, I told him to roll it in the open, where everyone could see it. The roll came up 2. The black dragon grumbled, but breathed acid on the black knight (who I knew failed the save by seeing the DM roll his eyes after making the knight's save), but it wasn't quite enough to kill him. The black knight then skewered me (completely ignoring the dragon's attack) and then, leaving our dead bodies, left arm-in-arm with the black dragon. After that, we all packed up and started to head home. The veteran guy, who'd been sitting on the DM's side of the table stopped me after the DM had headed out and confided to me, "really, that black dragon killed the knight, by about 5 hit points," he told me, leaving me stunned and furious. I ever after vowed I'd be a better and less vindictive DM than how I felt I was treated at that game. Later, I didn't get into AD&D until 9th grade - around the time Unearthed Arcana came about - that was when I got the AD&D rules. And it was also that time that I started to get more serious about the rules. I was so disgusted with the order of the rules spread over the PHB, DMG and UA that I rewrote them down in a journal in abbreviated form so I could better compile and understand them (ah, to go back to that age when I had the time to do things like that...). Ever since AD&D, I started becoming more and more of a 'rules lawyer' sort of DM who was very strict about following the rules to the letter, as best I could. But I think I still have a soft spot for rules-lite games that goes back to my first few years of playing. [/QUOTE]
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